Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

[talindsay]

I don't know if many adults will ever live in Dinkytown, but with the CCLRT areas like Prospect Park will only get more desirable. There's still a ways to go yet, though.

As i try to remind myself constantly at work, college students *ARE* adults. But I know what you mean.

[RailBaronYarr]

And, like I said, recent grads count, too. The areas surrounding the U are not that different from Uptown (save the chain of lakes), and having a LRT serve it in to both DTs will have a big sway for where young people choose to locate when moving here for employment (especially considering SWLRT bypasses Uptown and improvements to N/S transit is a ways out). Plenty of bars, events, people, and now tons of tap houses springing up along the line.

[Didier]

Dinkytown is certainly a vibrant place, and it's especially great in the summer and during school breaks. But I think you're really underestimating the vibe of a college neighborhood. It's not the same as Uptown at all, really, and it'd take a special kind of person to live in a neighborhood where you're surrounded by a majority of people who are under the legal drinking age.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just that I don't think we should ever expect housing in Dinkytown to ever have significant populations of people not directly affiliated with the school.

As I've said somewhere else, I really think the edge of Stadium Village and Prospect Park are where the increases of "young professionals" will occur. Those areas will be right on the LRT line, close enough to the university to take advantage of its amenities, but far enough from the university so it's not like you're still in college when you're 25.

[RailBaronYarr]

Again, the topic came up of whether or not the luxury/apartment market was being saturated in/around the U, and the rationale being that there is a fixed number of students at the U (it hasn't really grown and likely won't, either) and therefore will tap out eventually.

I lived within the Dinkytown area (10th Ave and 8th St) for 2 years after I graduated, know plenty of others who did as well, and a roommate of mine was a recent grad from UND. Yes, the periphery will likely see more young professionals than 4th and 14th, but I don't doubt for a second that people making money in newly-found jobs wouldn't be attracted to the general area.

The vibe in Uptown on a Friday or Saturday night, to me, is barely different than that in Dinkytown or Stadium Village. Blarney's/Library have the same feel as Williams/etc. Just my opinion.

[mplser]

hotel? http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/fi ... pdf#page=0

[FISHMANPET]

hotel? http://www.mndaily.com/sites/default/fi ... pdf#page=0

That was posted here already on the 19th, when the article first came out, 7 days ago.

[mplser]

Oh oops. Must have missed it. Carry on...

[David Greene]

The vibe in Uptown on a Friday or Saturday night, to me, is barely different than that in Dinkytown or Stadium Village. Blarney's/Library have the same feel as Williams/etc. Just my opinion.

Perhaps for recent grads having a University atmosphere is desirable, but after you're out of school for about five years, you really want to get away to somewhere more settled and professional. Uptown is *really* different than Dinkytown. It's a good mix of rental and owner-occupied housing and I'll bet the population on average is much older.

Remember that "Uptown" is not limited to Lake/Hennepin/Lagoon. The vibe you're talking about is focused around bars and mostly created by people who don't live there. That's not a bad thing, it just is. Most residents don't go to those bars. They hit the restaurants. Living in Uptown is much different than visiting Uptown.

I think the predictions about Prospect Park are right on. If I didn't already have a house, I would definitely be giving that neighborhood a long and careful look.

[RailBaronYarr]

The vibe in Uptown on a Friday or Saturday night, to me, is barely different than that in Dinkytown or Stadium Village. Blarney's/Library have the same feel as Williams/etc. Just my opinion.

Perhaps for recent grads having a University atmosphere is desirable, but after you're out of school for about five years, you really want to get away to somewhere more settled and professional. Uptown is *really* different than Dinkytown. It's a good mix of rental and owner-occupied housing and I'll bet the population on average is much older.

Remember that "Uptown" is not limited to Lake/Hennepin/Lagoon. The vibe you're talking about is focused around bars and mostly created by people who don't live there. That's not a bad thing, it just is. Most residents don't go to those bars. They hit the restaurants. Living in Uptown is much different than visiting Uptown.

I think the predictions about Prospect Park are right on. If I didn't already have a house, I would definitely be giving that neighborhood a long and careful look.

..but that's exactly my point. Go outside the core 4th/14th core of bars, apartments, etc (and the surrounding blocks to the north) and you have plenty of homeowners mixed in with renters in the greater Marcy-Holmes and Como neighborhoods. That's where all these long-timers are from at the community meetings, no? The influx of amenities to the areas surrounding campus (actual grocery stores within walking distance, many more shops and eateries, etc) is exactly what makes the greater Uptown area attractive (beyond the proximity to the lakes, obviously), and is what will make SV/Dinkytown attractive to young professionals. Both are close to downtown and are getting upgrades in transit service. Yes, past 27 when one is seriously dating/married and feeling a little old to be hitting the bars 2+ times a week, etc is when Prospect Park, Como, etc start seeming more attractive for a house, duplex, or converted house condo. It's just my take, and in my opinion partially the reason we're still seeing a LOT of new development going on around campus despite all the armchair experts saying the market is tapped.

[Didier]

The new developments are basically in the heart of Dinkytown though, or at least in areas heavily populated with students.

[FISHMANPET]

So in an article about the housing boom, a choice quote about this being hotel:
http://mndaily.com/news/campus/2013/12/ ... owing-down

Doran said he’s concerned about market saturation, but that didn’t factor into his decision to change plans for an apartment complex in the heart of Dinkytown to a 125-room hotel.

[RailBaronYarr]

I may have said it before, but I'm absolutely shocked that a hotel makes sense, particularly right in this location. Questions, assuming a hotel: 1) would it be run by Doran or sold off to a hotel chain, 2) would the street-facing space still be for commercial or used as the lobby, and 3) implications for parking?

[RailBaronYarr]

Doran has filed for demolition rights to the 3 properties necessary for this development (the home just south of BLoco, the Mesa brick building, and the University LifeCare Center building):

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/hpc/WCMS1P-119148

Of the three, only the Mesa/Camdi/Tattoo building has any shot, and even then it's a fairly plain building by that era's standards. I think the letter states it (my belief on preserving buildings like this) best:

...CPED staff determined that the property is an historic resource because it represents a form of vernacular architecture and because the building is located in Dinkytown. Under these criteria, virtually every building constructed in this era in a commercial district in the City could be considered an historic resource...[and would] significantly alter the development approval process in Minneapolis

Has anyone seen any other info about this project since the Daily article?

[Tom H.]

I assumed that Mesa's move into the old Leo's space near Burger King on Washington was a precursor to this project moving forward. When I spoke to the long-haired guy (owner? manager?) at Mesa last summer, he emphatically stated that Mesa would never leave before its 10-year lease was up. If they've bit the bullet on this development, I'm inclined to believe it's probably going to happen.

[Silophant]

In his most recent post to the FB group, Matt Hawbaker says: "Its become fairly clear that his plan will also include buying and demolishing Espresso Royale to create an alley-way entrance into his proposed hotel, so there is likely a lot more at stake than appears at the moment." Has anyone heard anything to confirm that? Given that the initial renderings showed an alley running up the side of Tony's, I don't buy it at all.

[mplser]

didn't espresso royale burn down?

[Silophant]

Nope. One of the apartments burned out, but the fire fighters saved the remainder of the building. It's open for business.

[schmitzm03]

In his most recent post to the FB group, Matt Hawbaker says: "Its become fairly clear that his plan will also include buying and demolishing Espresso Royale to create an alley-way entrance into his proposed hotel, so there is likely a lot more at stake than appears at the moment." Has anyone heard anything to confirm that? Given that the initial renderings showed an alley running up the side of Tony's, I don't buy it at all.

They have a few addresses for this project in the upcoming Heritage Preservation Committee agenda as slated for demolition, and it looks like the Espresso Royale building is not one of them. I would imagine that if it were part of the plans it would be included in this meeting as well.

Take a look: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/hpc/WCMS1P-119148

[Silophant]

That was my thinking. I can't imagine Doran would want to try to get another demo permit in a separate meeting.

[twincitizen]

It will be interesting to see how the HPC votes on this. If they vote to preserve all 3 buildings, IMO they lose credibility. If they vote to protect 1319 4th St (Mesa/Camdi bldg) and vote to demolish the other two, then I'd say they're serving their purpose. Doran will appeal and the final decision will move up to the City Council, where it rightfully belongs.