Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

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Silophant
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » January 23rd, 2014, 10:52 am

seanrichardryan wrote:Didn't you notice the banner of a robed and capped person hanging on the tower in the renderings?
I did, but I didn't expect that to literally be the name of the building any more than I expect the new stadium to be called Adrian Peterson Stadium.

Thanks for that image, mister.shoes!

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mister.shoes
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mister.shoes » January 23rd, 2014, 10:54 am

You're welcome! I figured I couldn't possibly be the only one who couldn't remember the old design and wanted to see how much it changed.
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » January 23rd, 2014, 11:56 am

What a name.
I can hear Dinkytown not Megatown saying...
"Are you trying to seduce me, Mr. Doran?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mplser » January 23rd, 2014, 12:29 pm

does anyone know when the city council will vote on this?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby talindsay » January 23rd, 2014, 2:50 pm

mattaudio wrote:What a name.
I can hear Dinkytown not Megatown saying...
"Are you trying to seduce me, Mr. Doran?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4
Here's to you, Mr. Doran
Dinkytown loves you more than you may know
whoa, whoa, whoa

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 23rd, 2014, 2:55 pm

Full details on the new layout/renderings:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 119643.pdf

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Wedgeguy » January 23rd, 2014, 3:24 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:Full details on the new layout/renderings:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 119643.pdf
Consider me sold! As long as they don't skimp on the details, I really like this building. I like the set backs. There is a great street presence. With the right brick and trim details it would be hard to say this is not a building of 80 years ago other than layout details which would not have happened back then.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » January 23rd, 2014, 3:25 pm

I was eh on the apartment proposal, but this building looks top notch. I wonder if this will be stick as well, or if the hotel allows them to go poured concrete?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby lordmoke » January 23rd, 2014, 3:35 pm

In conjunction with this project, Al's will be changing its name to "The Breakfast Club."

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 23rd, 2014, 3:42 pm

Interesting Twitter convo with Sam Newberg and David Levinson. Sam points out the transformer behind what looks like a small visual barrier (but still seen as approaching from the east on the sidewalk). Good questions about the parking entrance - why does it have to be along 4th? Can't they use the alley they're widening (by demolishing a house) as the parking entrance and re-configure meeting room space to abut 4th St? Fewer impacts on a busier sidewalk and busier street. My take is that the city can/should demand they move the parking ramp entrance in exchange for demolition permission (assuming CC even will vote in that favor), keeping streetscape intact.

Also, would have liked to see more retail fronting the street. Going from 4 retail + 1 service to 2 retail + hotel entrance is a bit of a loss. I still think it meets the mark visually and has benefits to the area (patronage, removing traffic on gamedays, etc).

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Wedgeguy » January 23rd, 2014, 3:45 pm

With the available eateries within walking distance, there is no need for a restaurant in this project. This would be a welcome addition for the coffeehouses, restaurants, and retail shops that are near by. A somewhat more captive audience that would use these venues more than apartment residents.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » January 23rd, 2014, 4:34 pm

Looking more closely, I really like this project with the changes that have been made. Opponents are going to seem ridiculous when they inevitably claim that Doran's been ignoring community input.

Like Wedgeguy, I'm glad they didn't force a restaurant into this space, instead relying on the various other established restaurants within a block. I do, of course, hope that Mesa moves back into one of those spaces if possible.

I agree that they should move the ramp entrance to their new alley. It seems to me that they'd gain a couple parking spots in the basement that way, in addition to removing a curb cut and improving the streetscape on Fourth.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby nerdljos » January 23rd, 2014, 4:43 pm

I was just looking over the renderings in the Eclipse memo, and realizing that what I like about it is that it looks very unlike the other new developments (not rehabilitations) of recent years.

If the main complaint is that Dinkytown will lose its historic old-photograph-from-the-60s, unique nature, why not come around with buildings that will help it maintain this? The development I see now is definitely improved upon the initial proposal (and I think I'd like seeing it in Dinkytown for reals), but it's still has a lot of things that you could find in Maple Grove, or out the back of CMU, except ohh, it's so urban. Wow. Much street adjacence. Very first floor retail.

Developers need to find something that they can seduce these preservationists with, but so far they're not. Just take a trip down University or 4th and look at all those other new developments, and the general sameness, and I think it's easy to understand why proposals keep getting rejected in the heart of Dinkytown.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » January 23rd, 2014, 5:16 pm

nerdljos wrote:I think it's easy to understand why proposals keep getting rejected in the heart of Dinkytown.
For what it's worth, I don't think there's been anything denied in the heart yet. The opus project went through, and this is in the process and could go either way.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby RailBaronYarr » January 23rd, 2014, 8:47 pm

I'm interested to see examples of buildings that look like this proposal out in the suburbs as so many Strib commenters claim.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Didier » January 24th, 2014, 9:49 pm

RailBaronYarr wrote:Going from 4 retail + 1 service to 2 retail + hotel entrance is a bit of a loss.
This is a really nice looking development and I think it would fit nicely in this space, but RBY's statement here inadvertently hits on the issue that I think people are concerned about. Development is going to continue to consolidate existing properties in this area, and as that happens three small storefronts is going to turn into one. The most successful companies will find a way to stay, but the shitty tattoo parlors and hole-in-the-wall restaurants probably won't.

Again, I'm not asserting that these changes shouldn't happen; this is the nature of development. The reason this project is kind of depressing to me is that Dinkytown has no shortage of underutilized land, but this one is going after one of the healthy and eclectic stretches that makes this area unique.

The biggest thing making this less depressing, though, is that the hotel looks legitimately pretty cool.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby talindsay » January 25th, 2014, 6:55 am

Didier wrote:Again, I'm not asserting that these changes shouldn't happen; this is the nature of development. The reason this project is kind of depressing to me is that Dinkytown has no shortage of underutilized land, but this one is going after one of the healthy and eclectic stretches that makes this area unique.
That to me is a good point. This is a likeable enough proposal, it's just too bad it's going in a place where there *aren't* surface parking lots and failing businesses when there are plenty of both in the immediate area.

tab
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby tab » January 25th, 2014, 10:36 am

On the City report, there was a smaller red rectangle to the west, which wasn't contiguous with the main hotel building. Is demolition of that building actually necessary to complete the basic project? If that building is being demolished to provide a few surface parking spaces, it seems like urbanist and historic interests would both support preservation of that structure at least. If the hotel absolutely needs access to a few more parking spaces, presumably they could work out a lease with one of the other lots/parking structures nearby.

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Nathan
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Nathan » January 25th, 2014, 10:58 am

Didier wrote:
RailBaronYarr wrote:Going from 4 retail + 1 service to 2 retail + hotel entrance is a bit of a loss.
This is a really nice looking development and I think it would fit nicely in this space, but RBY's statement here inadvertently hits on the issue that I think people are concerned about. Development is going to continue to consolidate existing properties in this area, and as that happens three small storefronts is going to turn into one. The most successful companies will find a way to stay, but the shitty tattoo parlors and hole-in-the-wall restaurants probably won't.
Let's not forget, though, that there is a net gain of retail spaces in Dinkytown, if I'm counting right. (Between the Marshall and the Venue) 5th is about to become flush with retail spaces and will probably be more pedestrian friendly than 4th will ever be as a one way car sewer.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Wedgeguy » January 25th, 2014, 12:36 pm

Didier wrote:
RailBaronYarr wrote:Going from 4 retail + 1 service to 2 retail + hotel entrance is a bit of a loss.
This is a really nice looking development and I think it would fit nicely in this space, but RBY's statement here inadvertently hits on the issue that I think people are concerned about. Development is going to continue to consolidate existing properties in this area, and as that happens three small storefronts is going to turn into one. The most successful companies will find a way to stay, but the shitty tattoo parlors and hole-in-the-wall restaurants probably won't.

Again, I'm not asserting that these changes shouldn't happen; this is the nature of development. The reason this project is kind of depressing to me is that Dinkytown has no shortage of underutilized land, but this one is going after one of the healthy and eclectic stretches that makes this area unique.

The biggest thing making this less depressing, though, is that the hotel looks legitimately pretty cool.
I'd say things are staying the same as far as retail #'s along 4th as there will be 2 retail spaces, plus a Hotel entrance. So you still have 3 doors, 2 possibly selling goods, and the 3rd door a service. Plus that 3rd door that provides a service also provides a decent # of customers to all of Dinkytown. Also I believe that the 2 retail spaces will have more square footage than the 3 that are replaced, as they go back deeper into the block. That last statement I could be wrong about or is a wash of about equal when you don't count any of the hotels lobby square footage.


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