Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
ECtransplant
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby ECtransplant » August 12th, 2013, 12:37 am

Nick wrote:What is our purpose in the universe?
42

Tom H.
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Tom H. » August 12th, 2013, 6:10 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:What is powerful/fatal?
I meant that the timing of this project (right after the Opus approvals) will make it look like all the Save Dinkytowners' worst warnings are coming true.

TheUrbanGopher
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby TheUrbanGopher » August 12th, 2013, 8:55 am

I'm going to be honest, I am more hesitant about this one. If Doran proposed a project that was 4 stories and was able to preserve the Mesa building, I would be more on board. It would also be able to stay within the current zoning, since that was what the big fight about the Opus project was.

The 6 stories on the Opus development will mirror the 6 stories on the UTEC site appropriately. (And it was also 70% parking lot.) It will also add retail and streetscape that wasn't there before. 4th Street already has that feeling to it, and this project would probably not add any extra retail space to the plat. It might also strain access to the 14th Ave businesses like Al's and Espresso Royale.

That being said, a 4-story building would mirror the Dinkydale building well, and would add residential density to the area. I hope they would be able to scale it back just enough to get resounding approval from the neighborhood groups and the SDers.

Either that, or the 6-story building better be freaking gorgeous.

mattaudio
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby mattaudio » August 12th, 2013, 8:58 am

Maybe a 4 story structure would be financially viable if they weren't using this high-buck real estate for car storage?

TheUrbanGopher
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby TheUrbanGopher » August 12th, 2013, 9:00 am

Think the Planning Commission/Z&P/City Council would allow for a minimal or no parking requirement variance? I recall Doran having problems with this in the development of the Knoll.

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woofner
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby woofner » August 12th, 2013, 10:42 am

TheUrbanGopher wrote:If Doran proposed a project that was 4 stories and was able to preserve the Mesa building, I would be more on board. It would also be able to stay within the current zoning, since that was what the big fight about the Opus project was.
I don't believe this is true. For one thing, the CUP height provision means that effectively any height is allowed in any district, so I believe the rezoning would be more about the unit density. But even without a CUP, the current zoning only allows 35', so it would need to be rezoned to at least C2 to fit 4 stories as of right. However C2 would only allow about half the unit density that Doran is seeking, so he'd probably want C3A even if he was only building 4 stories.
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RailBaronYarr
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 12th, 2013, 11:46 am

^^^ Form-based codes!!! Cripes.

lordmoke
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby lordmoke » August 22nd, 2013, 1:37 pm

It's on the Planning Commission CoW for the 29th, no info:
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/p ... S1P-113310

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby FISHMANPET » August 22nd, 2013, 1:39 pm

Check out the staff report, lot's of info there, including renderings.
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 113328.pdf

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby FISHMANPET » August 22nd, 2013, 1:44 pm

Alright, my gut reaction is that I like it. There's only 4700 sq ft of retail space, and on the plans it's laid out as a single space, but in the renderings they show what looks like 3 separate entries to the space, so it should be possible to split up.

The design on this looks really good to me as well.

lordmoke
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby lordmoke » August 22nd, 2013, 1:47 pm

I hate to say it (because this would take out a lovely old building) but the ground floor of this thing looks fantastic. Really not thrilled about the curb cut and single-tenant retail, though.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby FISHMANPET » August 22nd, 2013, 1:49 pm

Yeah, just noticed the curb cut myself. Not sure what else they could do to maintain access to those loading areas though.

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Silophant » August 22nd, 2013, 2:29 pm

Wow. That's a much better design than anything else Doran's done, at least in my opinion. I like it, and I'm hopeful that, since he's apparently looking for local input, the single-tenant space could be broken up into at least three spaces, say... a Mesa-sized space, a Dinkytown Tattoo-sized space, and a Camoi-sized space.

I'm ambivalent about the garage entrance/curb cut. I don't see any way to avoid it, except a weird easement through the opus development, and despite what Save Dinkytown says, I don't really think students this close to campus use their cars that much. I know I very rarely use mine except to get to work. I spent the last school year walking to and from class in front of the door to the SVF garage, and I rarely saw cars go in or out of it, and this building is much smaller. These cars will smash right through the weekend drunk crowd, though, so that's worse. Or not, depending on your opinion.

Edit: Walking past tonight, I see they've reopened the driveway through the old bank building to allow access to the parking lot, now that the Opus site is barricaded. So it's not adding a new curb cut, just replacing the one that's there.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby seanrichardryan » August 22nd, 2013, 8:30 pm

I hate to say it, again, but it looks like a series of broken parts. Mocking two stories buildings at the street level is not good design.
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Anondson
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Anondson » August 22nd, 2013, 9:00 pm

I guess I would want it stepped back from the street above the 2nd story even further, plus now is the time to grab more sidewalk for possible cafe use or even benches to rest and crowd gaze. Development like this is the time.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 22nd, 2013, 10:19 pm

seanrichardryan wrote:I hate to say it, again, but it looks like a series of broken parts. Mocking two stories buildings at the street level is not good design.
Who says it would be mocked? Couldn't it be mezzanine space? The street-level renderings make it seem tall enough to get a second seating area above the entrances for restaurants. Maybe I'm crazy.

Other than that, this design is really, really nice. I agree on getting back some sidewalk space, but I think it steps back enough given the size of the lot. While there are now 2 active curb cuts, for a long time there were not, so this is a degradation to the sidewalk experience vs what has been for a while. Getting an easement for delivery OR parking entrance would be preferred but I guess I understand if they couldn't.

It certainly has some massing to it, and I'm sure this will alarm the SD folks. But if Doran can work with Mesa to ensure them a spot and split up the remaining as the multiple entrances hint at, should be quite good.

RailBaronYarr
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby RailBaronYarr » August 22nd, 2013, 10:31 pm

Also, am I crazy but did they do the BR calcs wrong? The floorplan shows 1 studio per floor but the table shows 5 per floor...

talindsay
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby talindsay » August 23rd, 2013, 9:09 am

I don't know, I don't think I share the enthusiasm for this. It's not *bad*, but the first floor on the street needs to be broken up into more individual store fronts and the upper floors need to be set back quite a bit more for this not to feel like a really hulking project, especially with the new Opus project pushing right against it. I don't like the curb cut at all, and I don't see why it's not interfacing better with the building across the alley to its east. Further, I'm concerned about it isolating the shorter buildings between this and the Opus project along 14th. Finally, I don't quite understand the brick warehouse design motif, given that this area wasn't historically warehouses and it doesn't really match the style of the area. The first floor should match the style of a *RETAIL* district, not a *WAREHOUSE* district.

Things that would improve the project, IMO:
- Much more setback of upper floors
- Remove the new curb cut and put entrance to garage on the extant alley to the east
- Break up the ground floor retail into multiple parts, with distinct and separate entrances on the street
- Play down the unifying warehouse theme, play up the individual retail character

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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby Silophant » August 23rd, 2013, 9:34 am

Hard to tell without more detailed drawings, but I think the brick is meant to match the style of the current Mesa building.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Doran Dinkytown Development

Postby seanrichardryan » August 23rd, 2013, 9:47 am

Agreed on the new driveway.The two current curb cuts have been active pedestrian corridors more than they have been egress for vehicles.
In reference to the streetscape, mocking was not referring to a false 2nd floor, I'm talking about a jumble of familiar building parts smashed together to mimic an organically developed street front, which it is not. Revisiting the renderings though, the second floor 'windows' are the only openings rendering in black. Odd.
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