Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 13th, 2014, 11:42 am

Lisa Bender now talking about precedent. Relating 1319 4th to buildings on Nicollet Avenue where City is planning a streetcar. How will we develop Nicollet Avenue to pay for streetcar if this building is declared historic. It sets an awful precedent.

Andrew Johnson now asking colleagues to specifically articulate what is historic about this building. He just laid down the gauntlet.

1315 4th St and the 13th Av house were granted appeal to allow demolition (perhaps unanimously?), but what happened with 1319 4th? That moved awfully quickly...I didn't catch the vote. Did I miss the vote on 1319 4th somehow? It would've come right before the voice votes on 1315 4th and the house.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 11:45 am

And Barbara Johnson schooling him that that's not the way things are done here (maybe it should be?).

The vote happened so fast, did they approve demo of all 3 buildings?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby lordmoke » February 13th, 2014, 12:04 pm

According to the Daily reporter on Twitter, they denied demo of the Mesa building, but approved demo on both the house and former bank.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » February 13th, 2014, 12:12 pm

Assuming developer appeals that to the council?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 13th, 2014, 12:41 pm

I can't imagine he won't. Frustrating decision, although its good that they didn't determine that ~50 year old block buildings are also worthy of historical protection.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 13th, 2014, 1:12 pm

It doesn't work like that. Doran has already filed an appeal. The full City Council has yet to act on the Z&P committee report.

If Lisa Bender is so inclined, she can move each Z&P item seperately if she thinks the full council will see things differently. This is somewhat similar to what happened with Opus/ House of Hanson. In that case, the Z&P committee vote on that item was 2-3 against, so at the full council meeting Gary Schiff moved the item separately with an alternate motion in favor of rezoning. It seems as committee chair you hold that priviledge of disagreeing with the committee's vote. Then again, that vote was about rezoning for the Opus project, not demolition of a historic resource, so the two cases are not entirely the same.

If Lisa Bender can round up 7 votes in favor of allowing demolition of 1319 4th St, then I'd expect she will move it separately with a substitute motion to grant the appeal. If the votes aren't there, I suspect she'll just move the full committee report, and there will be a study of 1319 4th St.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 13th, 2014, 1:20 pm

Oh, so the full CC would have voted on this regardless of what happened today?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 13th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Correct, the full council will vote on this at their next meeting.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 13th, 2014, 10:42 pm

Newly modified proposal is up.

Changes include:
More and bigger windows, both on the 4th St frontage and along the back sides. (behind Al's.)
There's now 3 proposed retail spots (up from 2, right?) with a total of ~4200 sq. ft. of space.
The parapet changed. Looks a little better in my opinion.
There's a more substantial screening wall between the transformer and 4th St.

Most interestingly, however, the cover letter only mentions demolishing the two buildings on 4th, and the West streetscape (page 20) shows the house on 13th. Looks like he may have reconsidered the need for that surface parking after all.

This project really does get better with each iteration. If tearing down a perfectly good, arguably historic house for surface parking is really out of the plan, that was my last major reservation. This'll be good for Dinkytown.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 13th, 2014, 11:04 pm

It still shows the house being demolished and used for hourcar parking on the site plan pages. Actually that whole back part of the plan makes no sense as listed on the plan. The house doesn't even connect to the property, so I'm not sure why it matters at all. And since that is just an alley that connects to a parking lot that will connect to the development, why not put the parking entrance back there and put another retail space in the front? There really needs to not be a curb cut on 4th st.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 13th, 2014, 11:10 pm

Huh, I hadn't noticed that the house is gone on the site plan. I totally agree that the garage entrance should be moved to the back of the building. It could just switch places with the meeting room, or, as you say, a fourth retail space could go on the front, moving the meeting room to the second floor and the patio to the third. Maybe that'll happen in the next iteration. We can hope.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 14th, 2014, 9:17 am

After running the numbers, I'd say it is extremely unlikely that the vote will change at the full council.

The only way 1319 4th St comes down right now is if Jacob Frey wants it to. I'm not sure that he's ready to burn bridges with the Marcy Homes Neighborhood Association (or Barb Johnson & Lisa Goodman) so early in his term.

Right now Lisa Bender and Andrew Johnson would have to get ALL 5 of the following to vote their way: Palmisano, Glidden, Yang, Quincy, and Cano.

That's assuming Frey is against, and no other committee members (like Warsame or Reich) change their vote.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mister.shoes » February 14th, 2014, 9:29 am

Updated GIF. The rendering hasn't changed perspective at all (the foreground buildings line up exactly), so it appears the mass of the entire hotel has shifted back slightly. Hmm.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby talindsay » February 14th, 2014, 9:42 am

They're trying to preserve the feeling of the current frontage as much as possible, hoping to quell resistance by making it seem more like the current streetfront. It's a noble effort but I think it's unlikely to change anybody's mind. Personally I think this looks good and would be solid for Dinkytown, but I also think the people who suggest this should go on one of the parking lots instead of tearing down an already-functional area have a good point. If there weren't just *so much* underused land in the area it would be an easier sell.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 14th, 2014, 9:59 am

Regarding the notion that there's a bunch of underused surface parking lots in Dinkytown that should be developed before tearing down a functional block:

I'm sympathetic to that, but if that's really how the Marcy Holmes Neighborhood Association and Save Dinkytown feel, then they should be screaming at the owners of the liquor store, Subway/Pizza Hut building, and McDonald's to develop their surface parking lots. I highly doubt that there has been any organized effort to engage those property owners.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » February 14th, 2014, 10:05 am

At this point, Doran has authorization to tear down the block building on 4th and the house... Could they just issue an ultimatum? Tear down 2 buildings and replace with surface parking lot, or tear down 3 buildings and replace them with a community asset?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Viktor Vaughn » February 14th, 2014, 10:13 am

Their authorization to tear down the buildings isn't contigent on building something in their place?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 14th, 2014, 10:17 am

mattaudio wrote:At this point, Doran has authorization to tear down the block building on 4th and the house... Could they just issue an ultimatum? Tear down 2 buildings and replace with surface parking lot, or tear down 3 buildings and replace them with a community asset?
It wouldn't fly with the council (luckily), but a pretty big percentage of the SD group would be all for that. They love them some surface parking.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby RailBaronYarr » February 14th, 2014, 10:31 am

I'd say the latest iteration is better than before. But honestly, the 4th St facing garage needs to swap to the back. I'd give them a pass on the transformer for that change. Put the meeting room or more retail there, I don't care. Adding pedestrian-car interactions along this super busy ped street is unacceptable when there's alley access in the back.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby uptowncarag » February 14th, 2014, 4:04 pm

Why don't they just move the house?


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