Dinkytown Hotel - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
mattaudio
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » February 21st, 2014, 12:01 pm

Sounded that way. Lisa Bender said their staffing pipeline is roughly 12-18 mos out. Hopefully this one can move up the line, considering how much potential property tax revenue is at stake if this sets a precedent.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 21st, 2014, 2:11 pm

Doran says the project is "over for now".

Sigh. Great job, Jacob Frey. Way to push for the growth of our city.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby lordmoke » February 21st, 2014, 2:30 pm

So why is everyone so upset about this again? Yes, it would have been an increase in density/ tax revenue. Yes, it was a pretty nice looking building. But it reduced the number of retail bays, and permanently affixed a garage door and power transformer to the 4th St street scape. Blocking the Opus development would have been a travesty. This is just unfortunate. We don't have to tear down everything- there are still plenty of parking lots to work with.

All that said, I bet if Doran had proposed saving the facade, this whole development would have sailed through approvals.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Anondson » February 21st, 2014, 2:33 pm

I don't think he even had to save the façade. I believe if he merely imitated it extremely closely it would have gotten a better reception at the council.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 21st, 2014, 2:39 pm

lordmoke wrote:So why is everyone so upset about this again? Yes, it would have been an increase in density/ tax revenue. Yes, it was a pretty nice looking building. But it reduced the number of retail bays, and permanently affixed a garage door and power transformer to the 4th St street scape. Blocking the Opus development would have been a travesty. This is just unfortunate. We don't have to tear down everything- there are still plenty of parking lots to work with.
I honestly don't get why everyone was so worked up about the garage entrance. Despite what Google Street View's outdated image shows, there is already a parking lot entrance in that exact location. It would have been cool if Doran could have moved it, but he was not adding a curb cut.

As far as the transformer goes, I'm a power engineer, and I think they're cool. I realize that I am likely alone in this opinion. ;)

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby FISHMANPET » February 21st, 2014, 2:46 pm

There is an existing curb cut, but I think we could do well with fewer of them on 4th St. If we've got a chance to improve the street, I say lets take it.

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Nathan
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Nathan » February 21st, 2014, 2:54 pm

Yeah, I'm not upset, it's mostly active space currently... there are still a lot of other underused spaces to gain tax revenue from, I think development would have been give or take, while the Opus project was significantly improving the area.

I also don't really see something like this as precedent, and even so, I don't really care how much it would cost developers to include an older building in their new plans, Other cities do it all the time. if it's cheaper for them to fill surface lots first, then spend more money on repurposing areas like this in the future, so be it.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 21st, 2014, 3:10 pm

I forgot to add in my last post that I'm not so much upset that this specific project won't happen as I am worried that this'll set a precedent for going through this whole huge deal any time a development is proposed for any of the other "last remaining old-school" commercial corridors in the city.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Didier » February 22nd, 2014, 11:12 pm

It's not like Minneapolis is overflowing with Dinkytown-like districts for which this precedent would affect.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 23rd, 2014, 8:43 pm

^Can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

If you are looking specifically about the urban design / architecture of old streetcar nodes with 1 and 2-story brick buildings, Minneapolis is full of them. Dinkytown is perceived to have unique character because of the mix of businesses, not buildings. The urban form of Dinkytown can literally be found all over the city. The precedent of calling this specific building historic is actually really dangerous.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mplsjaromir » February 24th, 2014, 8:17 am

Ugh. What I dislike most about the anti-development crowd is their insistence on using vague language. "Last remaining old-school" means nothing. The city has dozens of corners and commercial areas that could be considered "old school". The fact that Dinkytown is relevant still growing just goes to show how density is necessary for small scale commercial development.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Wedgeguy » February 24th, 2014, 9:08 am

Sooner or later the taxes on the properties will get to the point here it will be impossible to make the buildings affordable. The rents will have to go up and the businesses will not be able to pay the higher rents needed to pay the taxes on the property.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby benjbb114 » February 24th, 2014, 3:23 pm

Did anyone else find it appalling that Frey cited the reason he opposed the development was because this wasn't the right pace of development? Shouldn't the "right pace" of development be determined by the land developers who are the ones investing millions of dollars into the project (and have no doubt spent thousands researching the market for their development) and not some half wit who sits on a board?

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Anondson
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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Anondson » February 24th, 2014, 3:38 pm

The comment was standard hubris from elected officials. They don't even notice it happening.

web

Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby web » February 24th, 2014, 4:01 pm

many developers are looking for handouts though.........

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby Silophant » February 24th, 2014, 4:05 pm

Really? Which developments in the University area have been subsidized?

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby lordmoke » February 24th, 2014, 4:07 pm

Okay, I'm again confused why so many people here are mad to the extent they are that this project may not happen. (We seriously need to start calling new councilors half-wits after one vote?) I don't think concerns about this setting poor precedent are valid. Dinkytown is THE most well-preserved prewar commercial district in the city. I'm not talking about places where "most of the buildings are still there." From 14th and 4th, on every side of every street uninterrupted until at least mid-block out of the intersection are prewar commercial structures. There is no other place in the city you can say this about, save perhaps for Lyn-Lake. Move the hotel down a door and take out the post office building. Put it on the Hollywood Video parking lot. Take out the tiny walk-up on 13th and 4th. This is not some kind of egregious slight against density. It is literally the council saying, "Hey, maybe we should think twice about this."

Play a fun game (this seriously is fun) and try to find an intersection outside of downtown with an intact prewar commercial building on every corner, other than the aforementioned Dinkytown and Lyn-Lake. It's very hard.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby twincitizen » February 24th, 2014, 4:36 pm

Just off the top of my head:
Nicollet & 43rd
Chicago & 48th (3.5 pre-war corners, they lost a building)
Lake & Bloomington (almost unrecognizable, but all pre-war structures)

Dinkytown is perhaps more extensive than the many other examples of old streetcar intersections throughout the city, but they do in fact exist. Dinkytown is just far, far busier and more populated, having been adjacent to a growing university for over 100 years. It has grown outward geographically while other old streetcar business districts mostly have not.

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby mattaudio » February 24th, 2014, 4:51 pm

Yes, and I hope we can actually start to rebuild in that form as we grow as a city and desire more neighborhood amenities. I especially love the pockets of old buildings that are no longer on any primary street... they are truly embedded into a neighborhood. Examples include 48th and 4th (two nice buildings, nothing active right now, one is the Patina HQ), 48th and Grand (this is a hot corner right now) etc. So much potential for us to grow Dinkytown charm all across the city. I hope we see that.

Edit: Heywouldyalookatthat... https://streets.mn/2014/02/24/neighbors- ... lic-space/

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Re: The Graduate - (1300 block of 4th Ave SE)

Postby David Greene » February 25th, 2014, 8:15 am

robotlollipop wrote:How is that house even worthy of mention? Because it's been there for so long?
Usually age isn't a factor but when it's one of the last houses form an era, yeah, I think that counts for something.

I have a 109-year-old house, which is quite a bit younger than the house in question, and I was darn lucky to find a house with the first-floor woodwork intact, mostly original windows and most of the exterior architectural features untouched. If the house in question has original interior detailing I think it's definitely worth saving.


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