Nord Haus - 315 1st Ave NE (208' - 20 Stories)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Wedgeguy » December 9th, 2015, 9:38 pm

If that grant isn't for calming first ave NE then it's a total waste because that stretch is incredibly pedestrian-hostile.
For one thing, calming one block will have no affect. That is a county and city deal that so far they have not chosen to take on.
Funny how NYC has wider streets next to their sidewalks and still people there survive. Their sidewalks would be 10X more busy with foot traffic than 1st Ave along that section. There goes that Mayberry syndrome again.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mattaudio » December 9th, 2015, 10:51 pm

People don't survive in NYC. Follow BrooklynSpoke to see the constant reports of carnage.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
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Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Wedgeguy » December 10th, 2015, 7:48 am

I know a few NYC survivors, so not everyone deals with the carnage!! I find the drama on here better that the NCIS series!! When we have flying cars will the skyscrapers have to duck so they don't get hit??

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby RailBaronYarr » December 10th, 2015, 7:59 am

When we have flying cars will the skyscrapers have to duck so they don't get hit??
Yes.

I'm guessing the grant is going toward things on the interior of the site or along the (kinda sorta a) woonerf.

The city (and whoever else) really does need an official vision of some sort for dealing with the streets in this area given the projects going on and the anticipated additions of streetcars & bikeways come along.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby EOst » December 10th, 2015, 9:15 am

The city (and whoever else) really does need an official vision of some sort for dealing with the streets in this area given the projects going on and the anticipated additions of streetcars & bikeways come along.
Image

helsinki
Landmark Center
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Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby helsinki » December 10th, 2015, 9:35 am

12 foot southbound travel lanes? Seems a bit wide, doesn't it?

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/10/w ... ow/381117/

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby RailBaronYarr » December 10th, 2015, 9:43 am

I guess I don't consider some engineering cross section drawings for only the streets under consideration for the protected bikeways as a feasibility analysis a true vision for the entire St Anthony area. They don't take into consideration transit (streetcars will require something much different than shown) or any other area streets.

nordeast homer
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby nordeast homer » December 10th, 2015, 9:46 am

12 foot southbound travel lanes? Seems a bit wide, doesn't it?

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/10/w ... ow/381117/
It doesn't seem a bit wide when you consider the amount of bus and truck traffic on this major artery going into downtown.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
Location: Saint Paul

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby EOst » December 10th, 2015, 9:49 am

I guess I don't consider some engineering cross section drawings for only the streets under consideration for the protected bikeways as a feasibility analysis a true vision for the entire St Anthony area. They don't take into consideration transit (streetcars will require something much different than shown) or any other area streets.
Of course not. But they're still interesting to look at.

Will the streetcar require something different? The "future street car" lane is always placed adjacent to metered parking, so presumably the stops will be bumped out into that lane.

Chava
Nicollet Mall
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Location: NE MPLS

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Chava » December 10th, 2015, 11:17 am

I see trucks there everyday. Each day it's something new that they're testing on the site. I wonder if the site was more contaminated than they thought.
At present, the waste water tanks are being removed to make way for ground breaking. Not sure what that involves or what that means for the actual breaking of ground. "I know a guy."

trigonalmayhem

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 10th, 2015, 11:47 am

12 foot southbound travel lanes? Seems a bit wide, doesn't it?

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/10/w ... ow/381117/
It doesn't seem a bit wide when you consider the amount of bus and truck traffic on this major artery going into downtown.
But it *does* seem wide when it's in one of the most densely populated residential areas in the city with a big chunk of it designated as a pedestrian overlay district. And with hundreds of new units being planned over the next few years nearby. But clearly the priority is having a mini-freeway through this neighborhood, residents' safety be damned! If you lived on the stretch of road you'd be demanding something be done too, but you probably just drive through it and like that you're not delayed an extra ten seconds for the safety of those lousy pedestrians. This is the problem with treating 'arterials' in dense areas like they only exist to funnel traffic from somewhere else to somewhere else, you make the residents along the way pay for your convenience.

helsinki
Landmark Center
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby helsinki » December 10th, 2015, 12:50 pm

12 foot southbound travel lanes? Seems a bit wide, doesn't it?

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/10/w ... ow/381117/
It doesn't seem a bit wide when you consider the amount of bus and truck traffic on this major artery going into downtown.
I could understand a wider bus lane, but making all travel lanes 12 feet seems gratuitous.

As to truck traffic: if the streets of the city center are intentionally designed with the needs of semi-trucks in mind then, well, that's going to result in pretty awful streets.

Silophant
Moderator
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Location: Whimsical NE

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Silophant » December 10th, 2015, 1:23 pm

Reminder that buses work just fine on Chicago Ave. with its 10.5' lanes.
Joey Senkyr
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mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mattaudio » December 10th, 2015, 2:37 pm

Buses also use 10 foot lanes - the 9 runs in 10 foot lanes along the 394 frontage roads.

There's the actual lane as striped, and the effective lane as it functions. If you have multiple lanes in one direction, 11 seems on the high end of necessary width... 10.5 or less would be just fine. Even for buses.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 10th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Here's a fun map of all the designated truck routes in town.
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/parking ... S1P-140430

Notice how pretty much every commercial corridor and supposedly pedestrian-friendly area is also a truck route? I get that stores need deliveries, but they don't have to come by semi truck and we don't need those barreling through pedestrian heavy parts of town just because it's the shortest route for them to wherever they're going.

nordeast homer
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 717
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 11:11 am

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby nordeast homer » December 10th, 2015, 3:47 pm

I love the drama, people must be getting plowed over daily for this kind of outrage. If you haven't noticed by the name I live NE and walk this area plenty. I honestly have never considered it more dangerous than any other street in the city. I have family that lives right there and they have never complained about their safety crossing streets in the neighborhood. I have more issues trying to cross Grand Ave. in St. Paul than I do here.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 10th, 2015, 3:55 pm

I'm glad you and your family are so fearless, but I just lived here for the last year with a view of the superior site out my window and there is nothing safe or humane about first ave NE. I have a video of the 4th St intersection where cars are running the red light to make left turns on red from two lanes without ever stopping. That is a daily occurrence there during both rush hours. If you're walking from the south (the opposite direction drivers are looking for traffic from) you can very easily be killed while legally crossing the street because nobody even bothers stopping there anymore. There is zero traffic enforcement (just parking tickets!) And the road is nearly as wide as one half of 35W with almost nothing to slow anyone down. It's a death trap and the only reason no one has died is because most people avoid walking anywhere near there if they can. But now you've got hundreds of units going in and hundreds that just opened, so it's going to get messy really soon if nothing is done.

Wedgeguy
Capella Tower
Posts: 3404
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 6:59 am

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Wedgeguy » December 10th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Funny, I thought that there was a transportation thread that seem to be calling for this mess. That way I can ignore it and deal with the building itself, which this thread is all about!

trigonalmayhem

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby trigonalmayhem » December 10th, 2015, 6:09 pm

If you don't think the condition of the street a building is going to be constructed next to has any bearing on the project, just ... wow. I know you just hate me and any time I bring up pedestrian safety issues but this is very relevant to the development and quite on-topic. They got some kind of a grant for pedestrian improvements related to the project, and the area the project is located in is a pedestrian nightmare. That's relevant. I'm sorry I interrupted your discussion of what trim they might use on the windows.

sushisimo
Landmark Center
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Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 3:47 pm

Re: Superior Plating site

Postby sushisimo » December 10th, 2015, 7:32 pm

To a great degree, I agree that this stretch is pretty aggressive, with the 3 lanes, one way. And some fixes should be looked at. But, there's no erasing that it connects to the two bridges into downtown. So it's always going to be a thoroughfare of sorts.

Trust me, for 12+ years I've lived at a very major downtown intersection and I get it. But sometimes this board baffles me as to where cars should drive. Anywhere? In the city... at all? One lane? Maybe at 11 mph through an idyllic coffee shop/woven goods woonerf for 3 miles? Maybe we could change "Minneapolis" into "Fantasy Island" and at the city limits, Mr. Roark and Tattoo could yell "Da car! Da car!" And the heavy-hearted drivers would park and be entertained with a mystical and eye-opening pedestrian experience.


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