Nord Haus - 315 1st Ave NE (208' - 20 Stories)

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
mulad
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mulad » June 13th, 2014, 11:13 am

I'd quibble about how to generate electricity (coal is bad, oil somewhat less bad), but I definitely think power will be around. Given the mechanical elevator issues at my current workplace, I'd me more worried about the availability of parts in the long run. They're pretty complex machines which each take months to install or overhaul. It's probably not good to build so high that you need lots and lots of elevators.

But aside from that, I think mechanical levels are a big limiting factor for building heights -- you need one floor of utilities for each 5-15 floors of leasable space. I imagine a lot of architects and builders prefer not to deal with the complexities that come about from adding those mechanical floors.

Architorture
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Architorture » June 13th, 2014, 11:39 am

What an exciting time! I appluad the neighborhood group for understanding that density is ok is focused in the right areas. I'm further excited becasue the new council member isn't out trying to scare the neighbors into fearing density like the previous one.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby MNdible » June 13th, 2014, 12:18 pm

mattaudio wrote:The only reason he's a kook is because he only has coke zero for a mixer at his parties. But he throws a good party.
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David Greene
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby David Greene » June 13th, 2014, 1:32 pm

Silophant wrote:nuclear can easily handle the world's current and future electricity needs. All that's holding us back is hysterical anti-nuke sentiment
That's not entirely true. Nuke plants are expensive to run, partly because of regulation but also partly because they're just damned expensive. Certainly the day will come when the economics are more favorable. But we need policy changes too. Reprocessing fuel is a big one. Uranium is not a renewable resource so we need to extract as much out of each gram as we can.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby David Greene » June 13th, 2014, 1:34 pm

MplsSteve wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote: by FISHMANPET » June 13th, 2014, 9:14 am
So the developer said they'd walk if they couldn't build their stick six building, is anyone worried that concrete construction just isn't financially viable right now?
I have wondered about this as well. It seems like lumber wouldn't be cheap either. Add to that the extra costs to sound and fire proof.
We recently talked to a contractor about re-siding our house. Hardie Board is quiet a bit more expensive than cedar because of the labor. It takes a lot more work to install, it's heavier, etc. I wonder if the same is true for stick vs. concrete.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby holmstar » June 13th, 2014, 2:56 pm

David Greene wrote:We recently talked to a contractor about re-siding our house. Hardie Board is quiet a bit more expensive than cedar because of the labor. It takes a lot more work to install, it's heavier, etc. I wonder if the same is true for stick vs. concrete.
Seems a bit odd to me, but maybe you only need one guy on a wall to mount cedar, where you would need two for fiber cement?

Getting back to the topic, concrete itself seams pretty cheap, particularly if you're buying it by the ton, so I'd think the added expense is probably due to labor of setting up form-work and re-bar, and maybe a more robust foundation. But that is just me speculating. It would be great if someone from the construction industry could chime in.

mattaudio
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mattaudio » June 13th, 2014, 3:12 pm

Hardie is NUTS expensive. We went with LP smartside shakes as a cheaper alt.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mister.shoes » June 13th, 2014, 3:15 pm

We used LP smartside lap + shakes. It's great stuff. Looks fantastic and is tough as nails. Our contractor (my father-in-law) prefers to caulk the joints of the lap boards instead of using the metal thingies, which looks way cleaner.
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Chef » June 15th, 2014, 12:40 am

I think mid rises are better than high rises at this point. If you compare European and American cities in the 2 to 4 million range, European cities tend to be much more lively. It is because they have large, contiguous swathes of mid rises emanating from the core. American cities tend to have really tall buildings in the core surrounded by parking lots and then broken tooth style commercial corridors with lots of low density single story buildings and single family houses.

If demand is similar in comparable metros on both sides of the Atlantic then the implication is that our focus on height downtown soaked up demand in the rest of the city and hurt its overall urban form out in the neighborhoods. Better to build mid rises first and then as the supply of vacant land diminishes and land values go up, redevelop mid rises to high rises in prime locations. I know a lot of people see 222 Hennepin and now this as wasted opportunities, but there is no reason why they can't be torn down later if somebody wants to build a skyscraper there. Apartment building owners are relatively easy to buy out. I would rather see streets like Central, Lyndale, Franklin, Lake, etc. fully built out before we get more vanity towers.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Didier » June 16th, 2014, 10:28 am

I don't think this space needs to be a skyscraper, per se, but I feel like a huge, sprawling 4-6 story complex is wrong for the area.

mulad
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mulad » June 16th, 2014, 2:08 pm

"Sprawling"? I guess I don't know how that term fits this site, unless you're talking about just putting in single-family houses or maybe townhouses. You might mean that you don't want to see just one big monolith laying across those two blocks, and I'd agree with that. I think the plan is already to keep some gap along the old 4th Street corridor, so at least we shouldn't end up with a big slab like Longfellow Station.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby MNdible » June 16th, 2014, 4:19 pm

mulad wrote:I think the plan is already to keep some gap along the old 4th Street corridor, so at least we shouldn't end up with a big slab like Longfellow Station.
Besides the fact that I said that they should do this, have you heard anybody else say that this will be the case?

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Didier » June 16th, 2014, 7:56 pm

mulad wrote:You might mean that you don't want to see just one big monolith laying across those two blocks, and I'd agree with that.
That's what I meant.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby nickmgray » June 17th, 2014, 1:32 pm

Honestly, I don't care much about height outside the downtown core. I care more about that they development will offer to the community besides new residents. I think a site like this would be perfect for two 4-8 story buildings with a plaza in the middle with retail and restaurants. This neighborhood is thriving right now because of the activity on the street.

Honestly, I'd prefer to see a mix of residential and office space go in so that you get additional foot traffic in the area during all times of the day rather than the traditional morning and evening commutes.

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Nick
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Nick » June 21st, 2014, 5:34 pm

Image

abbey012
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby abbey012 » July 10th, 2014, 1:57 pm


MNdible
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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby MNdible » July 10th, 2014, 2:04 pm

This may be for the best -- it would be great to see somebody with a bit more ambition take on this site once some of the other projects open up.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby Silophant » July 10th, 2014, 2:10 pm

Well, that's a shame, but maybe waiting on this site won't be so bad, if waiting gets us a better project than the Marshall II.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby min-chi-cbus » July 10th, 2014, 2:37 pm

It's not a shame. Basically the developer put up a half-assed proposal for a prominent location in a hot part of the city, the neighborhood reacted and said "do better", and the developer said "We do what we want, nobody tells us how to run our business", and leaves. Bye. Bye. They don't have to like it and don't have to do what the neighborhood suggests, but considering how incredibly rare it is for residents to balk at your project because you weren't ambitious enough with density, I would have anticipated a compromise and counter-proposal first before quitting.

Perhaps the developer is right and they held fast knowing exactly how much to invest in this project, but I trust the locals more in this instance. This is likely the best scenario that could have happened though. Hopefully somebody else can work with this site and the neighborhood and come up with something that fits.

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Re: Superior Plating site

Postby mattaudio » July 10th, 2014, 3:02 pm

I think there's more to the story - remember, the neighborhood org ultimately doesn't have direct influence here. And I don't think the city even has the power to shoot down a project that's too small or underwhelming assuming it meets zoning and all codes.


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