Northeast and Southeast Minneapolis - General Topics

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
dajazz
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby dajazz » April 10th, 2017, 6:21 pm

Silophant wrote:
April 10th, 2017, 12:47 pm
I thought that was still an active General Mills facility, no?


Also, any chance of connecting 4th Ave through the site?
Yes, but General Mills has been planning for awhile to close the facility and transfer many of the operations to the main campus in Golden Valley.

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Nathan
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby Nathan » April 10th, 2017, 7:37 pm

Qhaberl wrote:
April 10th, 2017, 3:00 pm
Would there be something happening to the parking lot
If I'm interpreting this correctly, I believe the purchase was of all three blocks. They would begin with the westernmost block (of parking) before moving to the blocks that actually house the facility.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby BigIdeasGuy » April 10th, 2017, 8:29 pm

If I read the Journal piece correctly, and the Journal is reporting it correctly, Doran and CSM are only planning a single tower of 18-20 stories, in the 4th paragraph Doran say the includes A tower. I really like the fact they are wanting to include a variety of different housing types but they are leaving a ton of profit on the table. It's really disappointing to see an area with a crazy amount of potential squandered.

Either that or they are preemptively surrendering to Marcy-Holmes Neighborhood Association, which might be worse, especially considering the success other developers have had in the area building taller.

Silophant
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby Silophant » April 10th, 2017, 8:41 pm

It looks like the plan described is for just the current parking lot block, between Second and Third, and that the block(s) containing the actual General Mills building will be redeveloped later.
Journal article wrote:Doran, a prolific developer of student and high-end housing in the area near the University of Minnesota, and CSM, a real estate firm and the owner of the Renaissance Minneapolis Hotel, are planning a multi-family housing on less than a third of the 8.7-acre site.
I don't disagree that they could probably be successful going taller, but I don't think the neighborhood is dense enough yet for it to make sense to have multiple towers on a single 1-acre city block. It may be someday, but Doran's not going to be the one to take that leap.

tab
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby tab » April 11th, 2017, 8:33 am

FWIW, a city block measuring 330 feet x 330 feet is roughly 2.5 acres.

Silophant
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby Silophant » April 11th, 2017, 10:59 am

Huh, you're right. For some reason I was thinking that downtown-sized blocks were 200'x200'. I stand by my point about more than one residential tower per block making sense yet in this neighborhood, or possibly anywhere outside of downtown.

UrsusUrbanicus
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby UrsusUrbanicus » April 11th, 2017, 1:10 pm

Not to be a pedant, but I think the downtown / University grid is actually 12 streets to the mile, rather than the 8 x 16 long-and-short-block system prevalent in South Minneapolis. This yields 440 x 440 foot blocks from centerline to centerline (though I'm unsure how much of that is given over to street width).

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby min-chi-cbus » April 11th, 2017, 1:14 pm

Silophant wrote:
April 11th, 2017, 10:59 am
Huh, you're right. For some reason I was thinking that downtown-sized blocks were 200'x200'. I stand by my point about more than one residential tower per block making sense yet in this neighborhood, or possibly anywhere outside of downtown.
I agree with that logic, especially considering the amount of under-utilized land like surface lots that still exist in the immediate area. This will help all of that, of course. I personally favor development/redevelopment to occur on sites no larger than a half block in most cases, regardless of the surrounding land-use intensity. The smaller the footprint the better -- it leaves more options for other things.

tab
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby tab » April 11th, 2017, 4:20 pm

UrsusUrbanicus, the 330 dimension is for the private parcels only. Around the block in question, the public right-of-way is about 80 feet wide, and includes streets & sidewalks.

Silophant, why not more than one tower per block? Asked another way, would two 20-story towers be more welcomed by neighbors than one 40-story tower? (Too soon?)

What about a site plan with one tower in an early phase, and a '4-marq' sized parcel reserved for another potential future tower - if and when the surrounding land-use intensity calls for it.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby BigIdeasGuy » April 11th, 2017, 7:17 pm

While I think that Doran is capable of building good projects I agree that he isn't the developer that's going to take the risk to make this a truly amazing area. Just western block alone has a ton of potential, thinking about it at work today there should be 2 towers on that block alone. At the corner of 2nd St and 2nd Ave should be a 30 or so story condo building with an amazing retail anchor on the corner. Down 2nd St should be great street level retail with offices (or housing) above with an amenity deck on top. Town homes would be wonderful along 3rd Ave leading into a 18-20 story apartment building at 3rd Ave and University. Along University you have any number of options but I think a 6 story stick built with ground level retail would be great. That allows 2nd Ave to be used to access a large internal parking ramp that can serve not only all the housing on the block but also the district.

I think it would be a massive win for everyone involved and a great next step helping turn St. Anthony Main into what it could be. It would provide amazing river views to the condo owners because the building is offset from Phoenix on the River. 2nd Ave could be amazing with a good to great streetscape on both sides and it would help tie the area with the stairs down to Main St. The town homes along 3rd Ave would be a great connection to Marcy Holmes especially if they are matched on the other side of 3rd. The apartments along University and the tower at 3rd and University would be great start in connecting the heart of NE with the University. 2nd Ave is always going to be a challenge with the large parking ramp across the street so why not just accept that and put the parking entrance and exit their.

Silophant
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby Silophant » April 12th, 2017, 11:20 am

tab wrote:
April 11th, 2017, 4:20 pm
Silophant, why not more than one tower per block? Asked another way, would two 20-story towers be more welcomed by neighbors than one 40-story tower? (Too soon?)

What about a site plan with one tower in an early phase, and a '4-marq' sized parcel reserved for another potential future tower - if and when the surrounding land-use intensity calls for it.
I should clarify that that was just an observation. If some developer wanted to take the leap and build something denser, I'd be all for it. I would definitely be on board with this development talking up only a portion of the lot to allow for a future tower, even if that meant that the unused portion remained surface parking for now.

tab
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby tab » April 12th, 2017, 12:23 pm

Gotcha, that makes total sense to me.

TroyGBiv
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby TroyGBiv » April 14th, 2017, 2:12 pm

It would be great if this spurred more retail and restaurants in st Anthony main... it was really great back in the 80's when it was full of stores food and people...

go4guy
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby go4guy » April 14th, 2017, 2:23 pm

TroyGBiv wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 2:12 pm
It would be great if this spurred more retail and restaurants in st Anthony main... it was really great back in the 80's when it was full of stores food and people...
Agreed, which is why I find opposition to some of these developments puzzling. The added density would be HUGE for St Anthony Main.

MattW
Union Depot
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby MattW » April 14th, 2017, 3:35 pm

TroyGBiv wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 2:12 pm
It would be great if this spurred more retail and restaurants in st Anthony main... it was really great back in the 80's when it was full of stores food and people...
My Dad always tells me about how it was THE spot in town. Does anyone have photos from the heyday?

mamundsen
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby mamundsen » April 14th, 2017, 7:40 pm

Even back just 10-15 years ago it was fun. Pracna, Tuggs, Vics and .... cafe Aster(?) all had patios and on a nice night would be full and fun.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby seanrichardryan » April 14th, 2017, 7:42 pm

And all are still open, with patios full of people.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Didier
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby Didier » April 14th, 2017, 9:50 pm

Yeah what? Are there any vacancies between the A Mill and the movie theater?

TroyGBiv
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby TroyGBiv » April 15th, 2017, 12:12 am

MattW wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 3:35 pm
TroyGBiv wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 2:12 pm
It would be great if this spurred more retail and restaurants in st Anthony main... it was really great back in the 80's when it was full of stores food and people...
My Dad always tells me about how it was THE spot in town. Does anyone have photos from the heyday?
I've been searching online - we didn't take many pictures back then - walking around with a camera meant you were taking a photography class at the U. St Anthony Main has dozens of stores on all levels down a bunch of corridors. Most walls that you walk past in re now we're all either store fronts or kiosks. The best way I could describe it is if you took all of the stores from Stillwater - kitchen window, candy, apparel, gifts, kites and puppets, books poster stores... a food hall plus the restaurants... put that inside what is now St Anthony Main and that was how it was. I went with my brother and his fiancé back in 86 or 87 on a Friday night and it was so packed - I had worked for the Downtown Council for RT Rybak in 87, 88 and 89 and I remember working on a brochure that said that there were 10,000 to 20,000 people there on weekend nights... there was also Riverplace which was also filled with stores and a huge Rizzoli bookstore. This was "festival retailing's " heyday - think Fanieul Hall or Baltimore Inner Harbour Place. I wish I could find some pictures. The Uptown was too much back then - this was before Calhoun Square. Then the uptown started to grow and the festival trend started to wane. Beacause, really, how many Japanese goldfish shaped wind socks do you really need. St Anthony Main was where you took visitors or went to on a date.

grant1simons2
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby grant1simons2 » April 15th, 2017, 10:22 am

Except it's 2017 now, and no one is bringing their dates to a mall (no matter how nice) if they want things to last. It's a beautiful interior space! But you're right next to the most cherished river in the country. I would much rather have things the way they are today. With a movie theater you can step right out of, to stroll to a patio and have a drink while watching the city. I know many of you will probably be holding onto that nostalgia of great malls, but this one just didn't work. And honestly, I don't want it to work. Keep the exterior active.


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