Montage (Nye's redevelopment) - 116 E Hennepin Avenue

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
David Greene
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » September 16th, 2015, 2:11 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:There's not enough housing in places where people want to be. It's as simple as that. We need more housing.
You keep saying that and everyone else is telling you, "no, it's not that simple."

David Greene
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » September 16th, 2015, 2:17 pm

MNdible wrote:Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
FWIW, I don't get it either. It's a complete non-sequitur.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby LakeCharles » September 16th, 2015, 2:31 pm

David Greene wrote:
MNdible wrote:Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
FWIW, I don't get it either. It's a complete non-sequitur.
Not really. I mean it wasn't the funniest joke in the world, but it related. Beige-box said the ONLY conversation we should have on every topic on this board was about affordable housing, in other words dictating what we talk about. So MNdible said if beige_box gets to decide what we talk about, MNdible gets to decide what beige-box eats for dinner.

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Nathan
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby Nathan » September 16th, 2015, 2:43 pm

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhh, ahhhh, ahhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ahhh.

I wonder what percentage of threads on this forum have an argument about affordable housing? Is it important? Yes. Is it at all related to this project in this depth?

It's no developers obligation to build affordable housing when market rate is profitable, none. it's not their job. We don't have to shame every project. We have the demand for this type of housing AND the need for affordable housing. We all know we need and want more affordable housing.

there is something at fault for our lack of affordable housing, but can i suggest we discuss it elsewhere? Maybe it's supply, maybe it's lack of government spending, maybe it'sa lack of incentives, but really it needs to happen in tandem with market rate development, such as this project.

I actually love the new proposal, so I'm not upset about the downsizing. It's not going to make or break either the need for affordable or the demand for market rate, so let's get back on subject here, and have some meaningful conversation about affordable housing elsewhere.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby FISHMANPET » September 16th, 2015, 2:46 pm

David Greene wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:There's not enough housing in places where people want to be. It's as simple as that. We need more housing.
You keep saying that and everyone else is telling you, "no, it's not that simple."
I'm not going to pretend that majority rules is a way to win a debate, but a majority of people do happen to agree with me.

But what's not so simple? Is lack of housing not the fundamental problem? Even beige_box says we need more housing, we just differ on what should be built and how it should be built. Are you saying that there is in fact no fundamental basic lack of supply? That we actually somehow right now have enough housing for people in places that people want to be?

I don't think that's a radical view to have. We can certainly have spirited debate about how to fill that need, but I think we're all on the same page about the fundamental problem being not enough housing. The rest is "just" details.

But if you have another view about how we actually have ample supply then please elucidate, instead of constantly popping in to try and stop discussion by saying "it's not that simple."

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby trigonalmayhem » September 16th, 2015, 3:00 pm

Hasn't David argued in the past for restrictive zoning in the wedge that effectively keeps the housing supply static or am I misremembering?

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby FISHMANPET » September 16th, 2015, 3:08 pm

That is in fact a position he has advocated for.

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Nathan
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby Nathan » September 16th, 2015, 3:09 pm

Just stop. Seriously.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby beige_box » September 16th, 2015, 7:44 pm

Let's go back to being mad at that church.

David Greene
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » September 16th, 2015, 8:52 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:That is in fact a position he has advocated for.
It is?

Folks, please stop putting words in others' mouths.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby David Greene » September 16th, 2015, 8:56 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:
David Greene wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:There's not enough housing in places where people want to be. It's as simple as that. We need more housing.
You keep saying that and everyone else is telling you, "no, it's not that simple."
But what's not so simple? Is lack of housing not the fundamental problem? Even beige_box says we need more housing, we just differ on what should be built and how it should be built. Are you saying that there is in fact no fundamental basic lack of supply? That we actually somehow right now have enough housing for people in places that people want to be?
No one has said we have enough housing. No one. No one has said supply doesn't play a role.

But, "It's as simple as that," states there are no other factors to consider with respect to availability of affordable housing other than supply. But it's fairly easy to demonstrate that's not true. Redlining, zoning, segregation, racism and more all play a role. Simply adding supply is not going to solve all of the other issues affecting where people can live.

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Tiller
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby Tiller » September 16th, 2015, 9:56 pm

David Greene wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:
David Greene wrote: You keep saying that and everyone else is telling you, "no, it's not that simple."
But what's not so simple? Is lack of housing not the fundamental problem? Even beige_box says we need more housing, we just differ on what should be built and how it should be built. Are you saying that there is in fact no fundamental basic lack of supply? That we actually somehow right now have enough housing for people in places that people want to be?
No one has said we have enough housing. No one. No one has said supply doesn't play a role.

But, "It's as simple as that," states there are no other factors to consider with respect to availability of affordable housing other than supply. But it's fairly easy to demonstrate that's not true. Redlining, zoning, segregation, racism and more all play a role. Simply adding supply is not going to solve all of the other issues affecting where people can live.
All of those things but zoning are effectively the same thing, and nerfing zoning was included in "ways to increase supply".

In order to have a more substantive conversation, I'm curious as to how redlining/racism/segregation currently play a role in the topic of the price of housing, beyond (but not necessarily disincluding) residual effects from prior policies. I do know that currently our neighborhoods are relatively highly segregated, but I don't immediately see how it relates to rising housing prices and the restriction of them by vigorously increasing supply (or the failure to do so).

There is the issue of whether or not to cluster public/affordable housing, which has been talked about to an extent (though perhaps not thoroughly/substantively enough). I personally think it should be dispersed throughout the metro, a departure from the policies of the last few decades, and which has recently become official policy at both the metro and federal level (I remember because of all the comments I read about "destroying this country!" :lol:)

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby RailBaronYarr » September 21st, 2015, 1:40 pm

Updated renderings, glass for streets, etc: http://www.startribune.com/new-plan-eme ... 326801731/

EDIT: New staff report with the updated renders: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups ... 149082.pdf

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Nathan
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby Nathan » September 21st, 2015, 2:15 pm

I really like it, it fits the neighborhood well in design and scale, has great street frontage, lots of types of units, just classy actually.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby intercomnut » September 22nd, 2015, 5:09 pm

Image
I assume the developer is going to pay for the initial application of the street's glossy finish, but how will the city pay for maintaining it? Also, won't the lack of traction be dangerous both for drivers and pedestrians?

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby MNdible » September 22nd, 2015, 9:19 pm

If Europe can have glossy streets, why can't we?

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Anondson
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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby Anondson » September 22nd, 2015, 9:48 pm

Glossy streets are in most car commercials, they are so glamorous.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby amiller92 » September 23rd, 2015, 9:49 am

Had there not been a tower proposal, I guess I would have been happy with this. But having had that on the table, it makes this feel like a letdown.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby trigonalmayhem » September 23rd, 2015, 10:16 am

My thoughts exactly. Tower tease.

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Re: Nye's Redevelopment - 100 block of E Hennepin Avenue

Postby mamundsen » November 3rd, 2015, 5:22 pm

I just saw this article on the Strib from today:

http://m.startribune.com/i-ve-been-a-ny ... 335192961/

This says its slated to close in January 2016. Is that date actually set? I thought this was still just an idea. Even with the newest renderings.


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