White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
grant1simons2
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White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby grant1simons2 » June 23rd, 2016, 2:52 pm


twincitizen
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Re: Northeast (and Southeast) - General Topics

Postby twincitizen » June 23rd, 2016, 3:15 pm

Is it just my imagination or are they proposing to take up double the land they do today? (spanning all the way from 6th St SE to 7th St SE, rather than the half block they occupy today)

Now typically you cannot stop legally a business from rebuilding in place (see Wells Fargo in Uptown, various McDonalds, etc.), but this appears to be a full blown expansion, which I think the city could have grounds to deny. Also it looks like White Castle and Holiday are trading places, so that too would remove any nonconforming status they may have.

This would seem to be an easy denial. It may not result in a better land use in the immediate future, but allowing these buildings to rebuild would cement them in place for at least another 20-30 years. That and there's really nothing wrong with the buildings they're in now, just traffic circulation issues I imagine. Deny this and save them from their own stupidity.

lordmoke
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby lordmoke » June 23rd, 2016, 3:27 pm

Not to mention they propose to demolish two other existing buildings with small commercial spaces fronting Central to achieve this. Gross.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 23rd, 2016, 4:07 pm

Surreal! Looking at the diagrams depicting the project amongst the existing neighborhood structures it's clear how much these projects stand out (in a bad way).

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Mdcastle
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Mdcastle » June 23rd, 2016, 4:36 pm

Whether they don't fit your urbanist tastes is another story, but there's obviously something wrong with the buildings; business owners don't tear down and rebuild just because they're bored. The Holiday seems very small for a modern gasoline station both in terms of the pumps and in the size of the building, and thus the amount of groceries and sandwiches they can sell.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby mattaudio » June 23rd, 2016, 4:42 pm

Vacate 6th St stub and give it to them to help them assemble a much larger site, on the condition that they hit a high minimum FAR and other good urban standards.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Mdcastle » June 23rd, 2016, 7:56 pm

What would a White Castle and Holiday Station look with a high FAR and good urban standards, if it's even possible? Losing the drive-thru isn't an option considering how much of their business they'd lose without it, and gasoline pumps take up a lot of space, so what do you suggest? Working with someone else to build a third, more vertical building, at one of the corners?

uncle phil
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby uncle phil » June 23rd, 2016, 8:23 pm

Not quite what I was hoping for....

grant1simons2
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby grant1simons2 » June 23rd, 2016, 8:40 pm

The prime market for the White Castle doesn't even drive...

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby seanrichardryan » June 23rd, 2016, 8:42 pm

Drunks at 3am usually fill that drive thru.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

grant1simons2
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby grant1simons2 » June 23rd, 2016, 8:48 pm

They'd fill it up walking there too. Take Dinkytown for example. Mesa, Five Guys and Insomnia Cookies are all pretty busy with drunk college students who likely walked/Ubered/Gopher Chauffeured there.

I don't like the words drunk and driving thru used in the same sentence.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Silophant » June 23rd, 2016, 9:35 pm

I am also not really onboard with setting up a drivethrough primarily to serve drunk people.

I'm also not sure how a drive-through is incompatible with a multi-story building.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Mcgizz » June 23rd, 2016, 10:07 pm

mattaudio wrote:Vacate 6th St stub and give it to them to help them assemble a much larger site, on the condition that they hit a high minimum FAR and other good urban standards.
The fire department would stop this on their own.

Jokingly though, I frequent this gas station in the mornings for my bananas on the way to work and there are so many sheriffs deputies there "guarding" donuts its insane. They park in the State Farm insurance building "lot". They would also be mad with vacating 6th. Not gonna happen.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Qhaberl » June 24th, 2016, 5:51 am

That whole thing is crazy. I was hoping we would see a more mixed use devolopment go in here. I work in south Minneapolis. The students i teach live right in the area, east of Hennipin. That area so so horrible for pedestrians.


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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Archiapolis » June 24th, 2016, 7:23 am

Qhaberl wrote:That whole thing is crazy. I was hoping we would see a more mixed use devolopment go in here. I work in south Minneapolis. The students i teach live right in the area, east of Hennipin. That area so so horrible for pedestrians.


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Can "we" (the city, stakeholders, etc) at least discuss something more comprehensive here that includes major pedestrian improvements? Given the trajectory of NE and density, this little one-story, fast-food, gas station garbage is not the future.

Vacating 6th definitely needs to be part of the discussion, reconfiguring streets/sidewalks, bump outs, planted areas, etc. Those wide swaths of grass will become strewn with White Castle garbage, cigarette butts and beer cans within a week. Can we also incentivize a move for State Farm and get rid of the ridiculous building that is housed there and use that triangle as part of the reconfiguration?

Yes, these are "my opinions about urbanism" and I don't care about the business model for White Castle, Holiday and State Farm insurance franchisee if it means a dangerous and poorly utilized chunk of the city. Scoop up the entire program for all three buildings, mash it together, compact it, into a high FAR and redesign accordingly or GTFO.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby mattaudio » June 24th, 2016, 7:55 am

I implied that the 6th St and the State Farm shack should be in play, so they can build a bigger project WITHOUT a gas station.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Archiapolis » June 24th, 2016, 9:52 am

mattaudio wrote:I implied that the 6th St and the State Farm shack should be in play, so they can build a bigger project WITHOUT a gas station.
Even better.

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby mplser » June 24th, 2016, 9:58 am

this is disgusting

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Mdcastle
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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby Mdcastle » June 24th, 2016, 10:00 am

I know people that need gasoline can just drive farther to get it (or stop on their way home from longer trips), but not being familiar with the neighborhood, does the fact that gas stations are the de-facto corner grocery stores serve a purpose? Or that with a bigger station they could have more groceries? Is there an alternative source nearby?

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Re: White Castle and Holiday at Central & Hennepin

Postby mplser » June 24th, 2016, 10:03 am

^ Lund's is like a block or two away


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