Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis (cancelled)

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QuietBlue
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby QuietBlue » May 28th, 2015, 9:10 am

Wouldn't be surprising at all. Like I said a ways upthread, if they can't work something out with Minneapolis, other locations would probably be on it in a heartbeat. Minneapolis might be the ideal location, but it wouldn't be the only workable one.

acs
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby acs » May 28th, 2015, 9:21 am

Even as a Minneapolis resident who would greatly benefit from a MLS stadium at the farmer's market, I still wouldn't mind St. Paul getting the love. Especially concerning Mayor Hodge's apparently new stance, according to Frey, opposing not only taxpayer involvement but a soccer specific stadium in general (please, shill harder for the Wilfs Betsy, they need your love).

The Port Authority of St. Paul is a huge asset for the city to leverage when assembling sites and providing the funding for infrastructure or cleanup. Coleman also isn't stupid and knows Downtown St. Paul needs a lot of everything to keep up with Minneapolis, jobs, residents, attractions. He's also explicitly willing to spend money to attract those things.

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MN Fats
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby MN Fats » May 28th, 2015, 9:22 am

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but how great would it have been to have the MLS stadium where CHS Field is now? Don't get me wrong, I love having baseball there but a major league team would have been much more exciting.

How about killing two birds with one stone -- tear down everyone's favorite Sears by the Capitol and build it there.

nfschauer
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby nfschauer » May 28th, 2015, 9:31 am

Yes!! Then I will be forced to go to a different DMV! One with no lines!!

acs
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby acs » May 28th, 2015, 9:32 am

^the Sears site, one of the vacant lots on the west side flats, the industrial buildings to the NE of downtown, there's a lot of places it could go that are similar to the farmer's market site in Minneapolis.

Silophant
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby Silophant » May 28th, 2015, 9:49 am

I'd have no problem with the stadium ending up in St. Paul, but I do have a problem with rich people playing the cities off each other to further enrich themselves on the backs of the taxpayer.

Also, whatever city it ends up in, I'd put a fair amount of money on it being within a few blocks of an LRT station.

Wedgeguy
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby Wedgeguy » May 28th, 2015, 10:09 am

Not sure if that area to the east of the Depot concourse, south of Kellogg, would be wide enough to fit a stadium there anymore. I think at on time is was proposed, but that was before the transportation center has all of the driveway and such that take up part of that area. That would provide an excuse for people to cross Kellogg there to avoid traffic, by walking thru the Depot to get to the stadium.

MNdible
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby MNdible » May 28th, 2015, 10:35 am

If you read the details that Frey has apparently negotiated, there's no good reason that Minneapolis shouldn't sign on. Hodges' opposition at this point is just a stand on principal, not on the economic realities of the situation. I suspect that her initial reaction to this was too strident to allow her to formally support this, but perhaps she won't fight the City Council on it.

mattaudio
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby mattaudio » May 28th, 2015, 11:24 am

From what I hear, many on the council are displeased with how Frey has been "off on his own" negotiating on this. I'm sure Hodges shares that sentiment.

mattaudio
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby mattaudio » May 28th, 2015, 11:27 am

acs wrote:The Port Authority of St. Paul is a huge asset for the city to leverage when assembling sites and providing the funding for infrastructure or cleanup.
Just have to call this out, but they have a long and storied history of building Eagan-style industrial-noveau crap. Energy Park, the area north of the Capitol, east of the Capitol, Plato Blvd area, etc. Check out "Completed Sites" on the left: http://sppa.com/business-sites/ They build crap.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby min-chi-cbus » May 28th, 2015, 11:29 am

I'd be okay with the stadium in St. Paul, but my primary interest in this whole deal is sprucing up and redeveloping the West Loop downtown. That means more to me than soccer, personally, although I know I don't speak for all people. Even if Minneapolis were to keep the stadium but not place it in the West Loop, and therefore making redeveloping the West Loop a lower priority, I'd be disappointed.

Didier
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby Didier » May 28th, 2015, 12:04 pm

mattaudio wrote:From what I hear, many on the council are displeased with how Frey has been "off on his own" negotiating on this. I'm sure Hodges shares that sentiment.
Then perhaps Mayor Hodges should step forward. At this point the team is asking for almost nothing, and none of the asks are without precedent. As I said before, if she has a different vision for this area then she needs to share it. Otherwise, she's looking increasingly like she's playing an irrational game of favorites.

MNdible
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby MNdible » May 28th, 2015, 12:13 pm

Frey = Carcetti?

Image

anders
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby anders » May 28th, 2015, 8:56 pm

Didier wrote:
mattaudio wrote:From what I hear, many on the council are displeased with how Frey has been "off on his own" negotiating on this. I'm sure Hodges shares that sentiment.
Then perhaps Mayor Hodges should step forward. At this point the team is asking for almost nothing, and none of the asks are without precedent. As I said before, if she has a different vision for this area then she needs to share it. Otherwise, she's looking increasingly like she's playing an irrational game of favorites.
That's precisely what she's doing.

The thing that grinds my gears about this is that soccer is the world sport, played all over the Twin Cities by adults and kids from every corner of the earth, rich and poor, and yet so many of the politicians treat this proposal like another playground for billionaires. Use the leverage you have to tie this MLS franchise in with the community. Living wages, yes, but even more, what about an academy, programs with the parks and schools, etc.? It's such a good opportunity to have a sports franchise be more than just a luxury for those with disposable income. Come to the damn table at least.

acs
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby acs » May 28th, 2015, 9:50 pm

Pretty good article from the Strib about the economics of an MLS team. Let's just say this isn't exactly a profit machine and the property taxes definitely do matter.

http://www.startribune.com/investors-in ... 305410931/

This sub article give an income statement style breakdown for the proposal based on industry insider knowledge. Also, $30 average ticket price sounds pretty good to me!

http://www.startribune.com/chart-minnes ... 305414611/

As you can see, a private stadium paying property taxes doesn't make enough profit year over year to cover the interest on the bond payments. If, however, the stadium were publicly owned and financed through city bonds at a lower rate then the franchise would make enough to cover it over 30 years even while paying the same amount in bond payments to the city as they would have in property taxes.

Rich
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby Rich » May 29th, 2015, 6:52 am

acs wrote:As you can see, a private stadium paying property taxes doesn't make enough profit year over year to cover the interest on the bond payments. If, however, the stadium were publicly owned and financed through city bonds at a lower rate then the franchise would make enough to cover it...
So the city can save McGuire $1 million a year, which is enough to keep him in the black. But he’s a billionaire. Doesn’t he net tens of millions annually from his investment portfolio? Couldn’t he easily fill that $1 million gap with his own massive stash?

MNdible
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby MNdible » May 29th, 2015, 7:26 am

Of course he could. But unless he's doing this as pure philanthropy, that's not going to happen.

Look, if people think that having MLS in Minneapolis and jumpstarting the redevelopment of that part of town is unimportant, than by all means, tell the good doctor to take a hike. I'm serious -- it's a choice the city gets to make. I hate how the pro sports economy works. But I do think that the benefits that will accrue to the city would (in this case) be worth much more than the very modest outlay that's being requested.

acs
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby acs » May 29th, 2015, 8:45 am

Unlike in government, most successful individuals and businesses aren't inclined to throw good money after bad. And no, Billionares don't get to be that rich by spending their own money. They get that rich by saving their own money. Compound interest is incredibly powerful and so the opportunity cost is huge for a project that can't cover it's expenses.

Rich
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby Rich » May 29th, 2015, 9:15 am

acs wrote:Billionares don't get to be that rich by spending their own money.
Indeed. Sometimes they get rich by illegally fudging stock option records in order to maximize gains! And really successful billionaires like Bill McGuire also understand how to escape investigation by paying the Securities and Exchange Commission $600 million.

acs
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Re: Major League Soccer Stadium in Minneapolis

Postby acs » May 29th, 2015, 9:35 am

So the fact that he had to work all the way up to CEO before that happened means nothing? Or how about the community banker who saved Twin Cities Rapid Transit from a convicted fraudster? Or the hotel empire builder that began with a $55 loan and a stamp trading business? Please, spare us the "rich people are evil" line, it's not productive at all and only serves to make the left look like a bunch of jealous whiners. If being a Billionaire was as easy as schmoozing and kissing babies people like Jacob Frey sure as hell wouldn't be a lowly city council member.


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