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Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 7th, 2013, 8:02 am
by talindsay
fotoapparatic wrote:Somewhere near 280 and University could be good... near the U lots of large industrial plots near the LRT
Now that's the first really good idea I've heard. Downtown is too expensive for a sport with tepid support, but the 'burbs are too far from where support is likely to be the strongest - the immigrant neighborhoods in the city. A 280/University location would be perfect - the large Latino communities in both cities are well connected by public transit, it's close to the U so college students looking for cheap entertainment could get there, and the cost of the land would be low.

Actually, what about building a soccer "stadium" on the now-available Midway Stadium site?

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 7th, 2013, 8:11 am
by talindsay
FISHMANPET wrote:MN United FC is an NASL team, not MLS.

I'm guessing soccer now is at the same point basketball and football (nfl, afl) were 40-50 years ago, and soon all these leagues will merge together.

Or it'll be like baseball where you've got the major leagues and then second tier farm leagues.
Regarding league structure, MLS has struggled a lot with FIFA over the unusual way the US tends to structure professional sports. It's certainly possible the US will continue to go its own way with soccer, but given the huge (and expensive) international market in soccer superstars, the whole process of interacting with other countries' systems will be much easier if the US adopts a similar model. One challenge here is that currently MLS is structured almost in *opposition* to the US amateur soccer structure, and the semi-pro leagues are stuck in a weird limbo between the two.

Most European cities have unified football clubs (hence the word "united" in their titles - since our system isn't actually united, the title "united" is stupid and pointless for our team), and those clubs build talent from the littlest kid leagues up through adult semi-professional development and competition leagues; they field professional teams using some of their own home-grown talent, and compete on the open market to balance out their professional teams. If a team does well enough consistently enough for long enough, it gets asked to move up a tier and/or the united club chooses to field an additional team to cover another level of competition.

Again, "Minnesota United" is a stupid name because that name implies something - that the Minnesota soccer clubs are united into a structure that develops its own talent from the ground up. And that's not true at all, since Minnesota United is merely an independent second-tier professional team. Now, if they chose to merge with Minneapolis United (the major, actually-united, amateur soccer club in Minneapolis, which fields something like 200 teams) and make themselves the top-tier team within Minneapolis United's structure, then they could actually use the word "United" in a meaningful way. But now they're using the title to sound European and play at being the real thing.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 8th, 2013, 7:49 am
by talindsay
I suppose "Minnesota United" might simply be McGuire's clever way of alluding to his UnitedHealth money...

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 8th, 2013, 9:43 am
by emcee squared
talindsay wrote:I suppose "Minnesota United" might simply be McGuire's clever way of alluding to his UnitedHealth money...
Hahaha. That's rich. :lol:

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 8th, 2013, 12:05 pm
by Didier
The NASL is a sanctioned second-division league. A few teams might eventually join MLS if it ever expands past 20 teams, but the NASL isn't competing with MLS and both have their own futures.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 9th, 2013, 1:36 pm
by Chauncey87
Doesn't Wilf have first dibs on bringing MLS into this market? If so what is all this talk about building a ss stadium coming from?
Wouldn't WIlf put his team into the new Vikings stadium?
On a side note If both teams are playing to not loose ie passing the ball back to the goalie often to set up a play or just kill time if your up one goal then soccer can be a VERY boring. If both teams play to win then soccer can be a very fun sport to watch.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 9th, 2013, 2:22 pm
by mister.shoes
The Wilfs have the rights to bringing an MLS team to MN for the first 5 years of the new stadium being open.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 15th, 2013, 9:11 am
by mullen
chelsea is playing manchester city in st. louis next week. st louis....at busch stadium. i thought we were going to get intersting events in tcf or target field. i was expecting more than two kenny chesney concerts. yes U2 at the bank was awesome but why can't we host a match between two soccer powers?

we're a bigger market than kansas city or st. louis but they consistently attract more big events to their stadiums.

i love the english premier league...hoping someday the people who run our publically funded stadiums think outside the box.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: May 16th, 2013, 3:08 pm
by mamundsen
Major League Soccer official: "No question" Vikings stadium is suitable for MLS

http://www.startribune.com/sports/207595281.html

It has a few interesting tidbits. I thought there was a MLS rule about being played outdoors at open air stadiums. Apparently not.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: June 2nd, 2013, 10:18 am
by Didier
mullen wrote:chelsea is playing manchester city in st. louis next week. st louis....at busch stadium. i thought we were going to get intersting events in tcf or target field. i was expecting more than two kenny chesney concerts. yes U2 at the bank was awesome but why can't we host a match between two soccer powers?

we're a bigger market than kansas city or st. louis but they consistently attract more big events to their stadiums.

i love the english premier league...hoping someday the people who run our publically funded stadiums think outside the box.
The St. Louis game surprised me too, but my understanding is that St. Louis has been working on this for several years, seemingly since their failed bid to get an MLS franchise around 2008. Apparently is was a pretty big success, too, with a 40,000-plus sellout. Although I guess that's not too surprising, considering St. Louis had never held a soccer game like this and they got two of the biggest teams in the world.

European teams have been doing these U.S. tours for somewhere around a decade now, and to some extent, these tours are losing some of their novelty. Teams keep going back to the same places (Miami, Washington, New York, etc.), or else they are watering down unique games; once Real Madrid and AC Milan play once to a non-sellout crowd it's not really the same anymore. So hopefully the St. Louis success will make teams consider more secondary markets who are to this point untapped.

I'd be really curious to see how the Twin Cities would react to one of these games. I want to be optimistic, but for some reason we feel this market is really stuck in an old-world sports attitude. The Star Tribune has actually made a good effort to give space to Minnesota United, which says something since they are a minor league soccer team. But when you think of the influence-makers in our sports media there's a distinctive 1990s attitude toward soccer. I get the impression that the Twins generally have this attitude too, which explains why the only unique events there have been Kenny Chesney concerts.

On a non-soccer related note, I read that the River's Edge Music Festival last year on Harriet Island ended up drawing well from the Twin Cities but that it hardly had a regional presence, which is why they cancelled it this year. I wonder if that is common among big events like this those stadium concerts?

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 1:17 pm
by Didier

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 1:46 pm
by MNdible
Please, no more stadiums.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 3:53 pm
by talindsay
MNdible wrote:Please, no more stadiums.
If they pay for it themselves, I'd love to see a soccer stadium built here. Though I'll note that the MN United "stadium" at NSC in Blaine is quite nice, and appropriately-sized for the crowds they draw. It is a shame to miss essentially the entire urban audience by requiring a super long drive to get there though, and so that would definitely be a perk of the location.

I think a soccer stadium in Minneapolis right now would offer even less development stimulus than the new Saints stadium in St. Paul however - it's not going to be a major trip generator any time soon.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 4:35 pm
by Tyler
Despite substantially fewer games, an MLS team would draw way more total attendance than the saints do.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 10:15 pm
by matt91486
I'm a huge fan of soccer specific stadiums, but as long as the Wilfs have exclusive negotiating rights with the MLS for the next few years, and as long as the MLS is finalizing it's current list of the next four expansion teams (and I really don't know how many there will be beyond that), I think building a soccer stadium just won't be feasible even if the United owners want to pay for it. The Wilfs would obviously want a team in the Vikings stadium to utilize it better, even if it wouldn't be the preferable venue for the actual team.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: October 31st, 2013, 11:09 pm
by Didier
Agreed that the Wilfs' exclusivity window probably leaves this dead in the water, unfortunately. Orlando is already signed up as No. 21 and Miami and Atlanta are considered pretty sure bets to follow (not the smartest decisions in my opinion). That effectively leaves one opening in the near future, although another Midwest team would make sense.

It just sucks because this would be a great location. Soccer is a sport that needs to be done right to succeed in the U.S., and I've never believed the Vikings stadium to be a viable home to an MLS team.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: November 1st, 2013, 9:10 am
by Tyler
Wilf's do not have exclusivity with MLS. How would that even be possible and/or legal?

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: November 1st, 2013, 10:25 am
by nordeast homer
I had understood that with the new stadium the state had given them the exclusive rights to bring MLS here, but that only lasts for a short period of time; I can't remember if it's 2 or 5 years. Not sure how it is legal, but I don't see a lot of other people bidding for a team anyway. Who's going to challenge it? Neither the Pohlads or anyone else have been clammoring to get a team here.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: November 1st, 2013, 10:27 am
by sanchopanza
From the MN 4 MLS website:

Can you explain the whole MLS exclusivity clause with the new Vikings Stadium?

First let’s look at the language of the bill:

The authority shall, for five years after the first NFL team home game is played in the stadium, grant the NFL team the exclusive right to
establish major league soccer at the stadium. The authority and the NFL team may enter into an agreement providing the terms and conditions of such an arrangement, provided: (1) if any of the NFL team owners whose family owns at least three percent of the NFL team purchases full or partial ownership in a major league soccer franchise, such franchise may play in the stadium under a use agreement with similar terms as are
applicable to the NFL team which shall include rent based on market conditions but not less than a provision of payment of game-day costs and reasonable marginal costs incurred by the authority as a result of the major league soccer team; and (2) capital improvements required by a major league soccer franchise must be financed by the owners of the major league soccer team, unless otherwise agreed to by the authority.


The key part here is that anyone with 3% stake in the Vikings has the right to try to bring an MLS team to the new stadium for the five years after the first NFL game. Essentially, then, they have until 2021. That’s a long time. Also note that this is only for the new Vikings stadium. If someone else wanted to build a new stadium and put an MLS team in there (or even play in a different stadium until 2021), this bill does not apply.

Re: Major League Soccer in Minnesota

Posted: November 1st, 2013, 10:32 am
by MNdible
Yes, and it's the exclusive right to bring a team to the Viking's stadium, not the exclusive rights to bring a team to Minneapolis.

Not that I think that our region needs another single-purpose stadium, when a MLS team could co-exist very nicely at the Viking's stadium and help to pay the bills.