Minneapolis City Politics General Discussion

[FISHMANPET]

You know what, what Cano did was dumb. A dumb move by a person far better at being an activist and agitator than being an effective council member. Unfortunately we live in a polarized environment where every misstep by every person on every side gets blown up way out of proportion.

As the so called victims themselves admit, they have not been harassed. People concerned with the legality of this are far more concerned with taking down a left leaning person of color than they are the actual legality of it.

Honestly, this is the same "he was no angel" bullshit the media pulls. As if anyone is 100% perfect 100% of the time. People make mistakes. Just because Alondra did a dumb thing by not blacking out the contact information (which, by the way, is not required to submit the form, they voluntarily provided while themselves being provided a warning that it could be made public) doesn't mean that the cause she supports is invalid, or that this is somehow an officially sanctioned action by BLM, or pretty much any other conclusion someone wants to try and draw from this.

And, for the record, this isn't doxxing. Doxxing requires a person to research and investigate to find someone's private contact information, and then distribute it with the intent that people would harass the victim. The people that contacted Cano voluntarily provided their contact information (they were only required to provide their name, email address, and a comment to submit the form, the rest of the contact information was optional). She did not have to dig to find the contact information, she was voluntarily provided it by the "victims" themselves. She distributed it not with the intention that people harass them, but basically as an afterthought, as the real intent was to expose the content of the messages.

[acs]

You know what, what Cano did was dumb. A dumb move by a person far better at being an activist and agitator than being an effective council member. Unfortunately we live in a polarized environment where every misstep by every person on every side gets blown up way out of proportion.

As the so called victims themselves admit, they have not been harassed. People concerned with the legality of this are far more concerned with taking down a left leaning person of color than they are the actual legality of it.

Honestly, this is the same "he was no angel" bullshit the media pulls. As if anyone is 100% perfect 100% of the time. People make mistakes. Just because Alondra did a dumb thing by not blacking out the contact information (which, by the way, is not required to submit the form, they voluntarily provided while themselves being provided a warning that it could be made public) doesn't mean that the cause she supports is invalid, or that this is somehow an officially sanctioned action by BLM, or pretty much any other conclusion someone wants to try and draw from this.

And, for the record, this isn't doxxing. Doxxing requires a person to research and investigate to find someone's private contact information, and then distribute it with the intent that people would harass the victim. The people that contacted Cano voluntarily provided their contact information (they were only required to provide their name, email address, and a comment to submit the form, the rest of the contact information was optional). She did not have to dig to find the contact information, she was voluntarily provided it by the "victims" themselves. She distributed it not with the intention that people harass them, but basically as an afterthought, as the real intent was to expose the content of the messages.

Note to mplsjaromir, this is how you make an intelligent response during a discussion. Not that I agree with everything in it, but I respect the time and effort to think it through and lay it out.

[EOst]

Glad to see this conversation bringing out the best in everyone.

Personally, I'm glad to see Cano airing these viewpoints as a city council member. Whether or not you agree with her, she is clearly articulating the views of a large and generally underprivileged section of her community, one that has historicallyhad disproportionately lower media representation and political access.

[Snelbian]

I'm looking for the outrage and articles about the torrent of racist, sexist, threatening abuse Cano has been receiving on Twitter and Facebook. In vain, as it turns out, because while plenty of people are suuuper worried that she didn't redact publicly available information, they don't seem to be nearly as worried about a woman of color receiving Gamergate-style abuse from the pits of reddit and Breitbart for speaking her mind.

Or, in other words: white racists stay mad.

[mattaudio]

Yeah, it's disgusting. While I considered her initial actions to be "tacky" (though not illegal or likely not even "unethical") they are completely overshadowed by how disgusting anonymous/semi-anonymous people - generally white males, most from far away from here - have been on the Internet. A twitter search for Cano is significantly more depressing than even newspaper comments. It's hard to believe people can have such vile thoughts festering inside them. Best wishes to Cano as she rides this out...

[VAStationDude]

http://startribune.com/alondra-cano-def ... ection=%2F

Concern troll whose public email was posted publicly has filed a ethics complaint. This guy is a person who thinks posting public information on a public forum has a chilling effect on political discord but police in riot gear is an acceptable response to a peaceful protest.

[Snelbian]

Getting really sick of seeing media repeat the "doxxing" language while very clearly not knowing what it means.

[MNdible]

You all do know that it's possible for one's brain to fully support BLM and also recognize that what Cano did was really stupid, right? You don't have to defend her bone-headed tactic just because she's "one of us."

Similarly, just because bad racist people jumped on the issue doesn't invalidate the underlying issue.

[VAStationDude]

I agree on both points. I don't think it was smart to post public personal information because it's distracting from deplorable actions of moa and the police.

We all know it's possible to favor gay marriage, generally oppose aggressive foreign policy, support women's reproductive autonomy and be completely wrong about race. It's also possible to be gay and still be really regressive on race and class. A guy who thinks a poc bringing her children to a peaceful protest is doing something wrong is still holds a terrible opinion even if he is gay and gave $50 to Planned Parenthood.

Concern troll is playing the sympathetic progressive when he's clearly not. He's allied himself with horrible people and put him self out there as an ally to blm when he own words clearly indicate he is not.

[Sacrelicio]

You all do know that it's possible for one's brain to fully support BLM and also recognize that what Cano did was really stupid, right? You don't have to defend her bone-headed tactic just because she's "one of us."

Similarly, just because bad racist people jumped on the issue doesn't invalidate the underlying issue.

I can see that, but I think it was jumped on more because it was related to BLM. Not sure people would really care otherwise.

[VAStationDude]

I don't see how a 60 something gay progressive could object to a group of people gathering to chant objections to police conduct. A series of violent riots against police abuses started the entire lgbt rights movements for shits sake. This guy is a tool

[MNdible]

I can see that, but I think it was jumped on more because it was related to BLM. Not sure people would really care otherwise.

I'm not sure if the media would have cared as much, but I can tell you that if an elected official who disagreed with me chose, rather than engaging directly with me, or addressing the issue in an anonymous fashion, or even just ignoring me, to instead publicly shame me and call me a racist and then publish my personal information, I'd be flippin' livid. And I think you would too.

Public officials get held to a higher standard. It's tough, I know. And Cano seems to be refusing to make a real apology, instead doubling down and trying to make herself the victim.

[LakeCharles]

Well she IS a victim. Of far worse than what she did. People have been threatening her and calling all sorts of vile names. Yes she did something at first that was questionable at best. But I think it's pretty crazy to say that her mentioning that she has received racist threats is "playing the victim."

[MNdible]

Name-calling and threats are inexcusable. They are also sort of a side-show to the real issue. As Matt noted above, if you're looking for vile racist ravings, they're everywhere.

When I was referring to her making herself the victim, it was in reference to her passive-aggressive suggestion that the kerfuffle was caused by people just misunderstanding her intentions, rather than accepting responsibility that she did something bad.

[mattaudio]

It seems like the outrage is manufactured, though. A mistake in hindsight? Maybe. But it was clear she was just posting screenshots of her phone's email - which included the contact info - while protesting at MOA. And that data isn't public. I don't think there's any indication she was intending to chill conversation or retaliate against people by posting contact info.

[Tiller]

People have been threatening her and calling all sorts of vile names.

I'm curious as to when people will realize that this just happens on the Internet. The more prominent one is, the more shit one gets.

I know some people like to set up a mental picture of "oh my God look at that *people who disagree with me* hate machine!", but only a small fraction of people ever do that, and no one is immune.

Ultimately one has just got to learn to ignore the garbage, and keep a barrier of some degree between one and the Internet. If I cried everytime something bad happened, I'd instantly die of dehydration.

[LakeCharles]

I guess I live a charmed life. I have literally never had my life threatened or been called racist names online or threatened with rape. If someone here did that I would not say " oh well, it's online, am I right?" I would be upset. But apparently I am thin skinned.

And yes alondra cano is now a public figure, but she's only been an elected official for about a year.

I guess what I am saying is I sympathize with her. Getting extensively threatened online for taking a screenshot of a public form would be terrifying.

[grant1simons2]

[Sacrelicio]

You know what, what Cano did was dumb. A dumb move by a person far better at being an activist and agitator than being an effective council member. Unfortunately we live in a polarized environment where every misstep by every person on every side gets blown up way out of proportion.

As the so called victims themselves admit, they have not been harassed. People concerned with the legality of this are far more concerned with taking down a left leaning person of color than they are the actual legality of it.

Honestly, this is the same "he was no angel" bullshit the media pulls. As if anyone is 100% perfect 100% of the time. People make mistakes. Just because Alondra did a dumb thing by not blacking out the contact information (which, by the way, is not required to submit the form, they voluntarily provided while themselves being provided a warning that it could be made public) doesn't mean that the cause she supports is invalid, or that this is somehow an officially sanctioned action by BLM, or pretty much any other conclusion someone wants to try and draw from this.

And, for the record, this isn't doxxing. Doxxing requires a person to research and investigate to find someone's private contact information, and then distribute it with the intent that people would harass the victim. The people that contacted Cano voluntarily provided their contact information (they were only required to provide their name, email address, and a comment to submit the form, the rest of the contact information was optional). She did not have to dig to find the contact information, she was voluntarily provided it by the "victims" themselves. She distributed it not with the intention that people harass them, but basically as an afterthought, as the real intent was to expose the content of the messages.

Great response. The contact form isn't much different than a newsletter sign up sheet at a community center. It's not some confidential government form.

Also, the idea that she's trying to suppress debate or put a "chill" on anyone is silly. She's supporting a civil rights movement and taking heat for it and even if you don't agree with her involvement in the MOA protest she's still standing up for what's right. It's not like she's trying to intimidate a whistleblower or something.

[twincitizen]

Rybak details tense negotiations with NBA in new book
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/b ... n-new.html

"Negotiations with the Minnesota Timberwolves were going smooth until a lawyer from the NBA came to town.

“He was, well, a New York Lawyer who was definitely not Minnesota Nice. He brought an unbending, sarcastic hard edge into what had been fairly smooth talks with Timberwolves reps. Now, the lawyer was making particularly outrageous demands in a meeting with Goodman, Council President Barb Johnson and me, and it was clear we weren’t going to get anywhere unless he changed his tone,” Rybak wrote.

Rybak wrote that he, Johnson, Goodman and City Attorney Susan Segal left the room and decided to unleash Goodman on the lawyer."

This was from the Target Center thread, but I just wanted to say something that's been on my mind for a while: I really hope Lisa Goodman runs again in 2017. There's plenty not to like about her. When you disagree with her, she's your worst enemy and you want her gone. But when you agree with her, she can argue the case better than anyone. Obviously we (urbanist types) were on different sides of 2320 Colfax than her and probably a few other things I can't remember anymore. In the aggregate though, I am really glad she is on the Minneapolis City Council. And I hope she stays there for 4 more years.