REAL ID Compliance

Elections - City Councils and Commissions - Policies
David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 17th, 2016, 3:23 pm

Agreed. It's also a real problem to tell people to get a passport just to travel to Chicago.
Why? If you can afford to fly you can afford a passport. There are other options to get to Chicago.

LakeCharles
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby LakeCharles » January 17th, 2016, 4:10 pm

You can fly round trip to Chicago for like $80. A passport is $120. I guess you can always say if you are rich you can afford the extra $120, and the poor can ride a bus, but I guess I see that as a problem. But you don't and that is fine.

David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 17th, 2016, 4:35 pm

That's $120 over 10 years.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby FISHMANPET » January 17th, 2016, 5:19 pm

Thank God you can pay that cost over 10 years instead of needing that sum all at once upfront.

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David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 17th, 2016, 8:56 pm

I just really have a hard time believing that people who fly to Chicago can't afford a passport. I don't ever fly that route. Do lots of poor people take it?

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David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 17th, 2016, 8:58 pm

REAL ID causes way more problems for poor people than requiring a passport to travel by air does.

QuietBlue
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby QuietBlue » January 18th, 2016, 8:58 am

Poor people fly to lots of places, and often not by choice. And while $120 is less than the cost of most plane tickets, it's still another expense on top of everything else, especially when it's a trip that's being made out of obligation. When you're financially stretched, it's not always the cost of any one thing that's the issue; it's the cost of everything combined -- that's what people miss when they say "This thing only costs X, what's the big deal?". And that's not even getting into the absurdity of requiring a document meant for international travel for domestic flights.

I have a passport, and I think it's a good idea for people to have them, but it shouldn't be required to fly domestically. Not that I think REAL ID is okay either.

amiller92
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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby amiller92 » January 18th, 2016, 11:29 am

But a passport doesn't fit in your wallet! Think of how inconvenient it is to not be able to fly a thousand miles away without having to bring some kind of small bag in addition to your wallet!
You can get a passport card these days.

I've also got a Global Entry card, but filling out an online application, paying the fee and going to the airport for and "interview" and to be fingerprinted does not seem like a reasonable burden to place on interstate travel.

David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 18th, 2016, 4:03 pm

Poor people fly to lots of places, and often not by choice. And while $120 is less than the cost of most plane tickets, it's still another expense on top of everything else, especially when it's a trip that's being made out of obligation.
Well, consider me educated then. I hardly ever fly myself so I honestly didn't know lots of poor people do.

I still think REAL ID is a very bad idea. It would be better for the state to pass some kind of passport subsidy for the poor.

xandrex
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby xandrex » January 19th, 2016, 4:31 pm

I don’t see how subsidies for poor people to get passports is somehow a better option than REAL ID. Many of the privacy concerns of a passport are no different than those of REAL ID. What exactly is the purpose of free and open borders between the states if you have to have a document—intended for international travel—to fly between them?

If what we REALLY mean is undocumented poor people, then that’s a different can of worms with alternative solutions that should probably be worked out.

mattaudio
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby mattaudio » January 19th, 2016, 4:37 pm

I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?

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Tiller
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby Tiller » January 19th, 2016, 6:44 pm

But you can't track them without identifying them. They've got to file all the data they collect under something!

amiller92
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby amiller92 » January 20th, 2016, 10:44 am

I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?
There's no such thing as perfect screening and wanting to take a closer look at people you believe are higher-risk makes perfect sense.

Not that there aren't all kinds of civil liberties issues in there.

MNdible
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby MNdible » January 20th, 2016, 10:50 am

Privacy is obsolete.

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Tiller
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby Tiller » January 20th, 2016, 10:51 am

Then I'm sure there'll be no trouble in amending the Constitution first.

mattaudio
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby mattaudio » January 20th, 2016, 11:09 am

Constitutional amendment for what?

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Tiller
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby Tiller » January 20th, 2016, 11:38 am

Privacy is obsolete.
Violating the constitutional right to privacy (4th amendment), apparently.

xandrex
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby xandrex » January 20th, 2016, 11:42 am

I'm not saying I buy this, but I've heard people make the claim that it should be irrelevant who is actually flying. If people are screened for weapons and dangerous articles, why should the government care who they are?
I would assume it’s probably not totally outside the government’s interest to know who’s on an airplane should it end up crashing or being lost. It’s certainly in the government’s interest to know who’s flying into or out of the country.

Of course, you technically CAN get through an airport without an ID. I had a friend who forgot hers a couple of months ago on a trip. It just meant a really, really intrusive pat down.

David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 20th, 2016, 11:45 am

I don’t see how subsidies for poor people to get passports is somehow a better option than REAL ID. Many of the privacy concerns of a passport are no different than those of REAL ID. What exactly is the purpose of free and open borders between the states if you have to have a document—intended for international travel—to fly between them?
One can look at it the other way too: Why do we need a special ID to travel between free and open borders between states? Passport or REAL ID, the fact is that one needs "papers" to fly, even within one state. If one objects to passports to fly, one ought to object to REAL ID to fly as well (or any ID, really).

For better or for worse, we've decided to require special papers to fly. The way I see it, best to keep the onerous nature of those papers to a minimum. At least requiring a passport to fly won't impact your ability to do other daily activities (see below).
If what we REALLY mean is undocumented poor people, then that’s a different can of worms with alternative solutions that should probably be worked out.
Obviously the effect on undocumented people is significant with REAL ID and morally, I can't ignore it.

My suspicion is the air travel requirement was motivated as much by forcing states to use REAL ID and "root out" undocumented people as it was for any actual security benefit.

What alternative exists for undocumented people besides the status quo or REAL ID? If you require REAL ID to fly, undocumented people will not be able to fly. Even if one considers that ok, it's pretty clear that the use of REAL ID is going to expand to the point where everyone will need one just to get things done. How long is the state going to support both the current driver's license and the "enhanced" version? They'll just go to REAL ID and all of a sudden undocumented people won't be able drive either.

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Re: REAL ID Compliance - MNLARS upgrade

Postby mamundsen » February 1st, 2018, 8:49 am

Do we have a thread for the MNLARS mess? This is the best one I could think of since the update will impact REAL ID. For those in the IT industry, is this exceptionally high cost or does it sound about right? Adding 63 call center staff... at $6M is almost $100k salary! That must include some benefit costs.

https://mn.gov/mnit/newsroom/#/detail/appId/1/id/325465
State of Minnesota Releases Project Roadmap for Minnesota Licensing and Registration System (MNLARS)

DPS and MNIT launched MNLARS in July 2017 to replace a 30-year-old legacy system to process vehicle title and registration transactions, but the system has encountered technical complications since that time.

The roadmap will cost an additional $43 million which the Legislature must appropriate to complete MNLARS defect fixes and add necessary features by December 2019. An estimated $37 million in additional funding is needed to make critical system improvements and enhancements. $6 million is needed for customer service capacity increases at DPS in the current biennium. This investment would provide the hardware, software, and human resources necessary to support an aggressive delivery roadmap with concurrent work streams – the approach that is needed to address multiple stakeholder priorities simultaneously, and to manage large volumes of customer service demand through the rollout of REAL ID.


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