REAL ID Compliance

Elections - City Councils and Commissions - Policies
David Greene
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REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 14th, 2016, 2:40 pm

How much do the special session shenanigans play into the elections.

The whole proposal was ridiculous. I understand why Dayton made it but was it really worth it to shore up DFL Range support?

acs
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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby acs » January 14th, 2016, 3:23 pm

The only real pressing issue that needed a special session as the Real ID deadline and that thankfully got extended 2 years. The special session never really had much support outside of that. However that doesn't stop Dayton from making the proposals to shore up support, remember it costs him nothing really even if everyone can see through it. Also remember he wanted another session in the fall for the "walleye crisis" on Lake Mille Lacs.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby David Greene » January 14th, 2016, 4:30 pm

Why is Real ID pressing issue? Get a passport. The downsides are much greater than any supposed benefit, particularly if you're an immigrant.

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acs
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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby acs » January 14th, 2016, 7:03 pm

It isn't pressing anymore because the deadline is extended. But going into the new year the feds had indicated that MN had less than 3 months to get into compliance or else nobody would be able to fly without a passport. That's a pretty big deal considering how few people actually have a passport, especially immigrants. The outrage would have been horrendous.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby mattaudio » January 14th, 2016, 7:13 pm

Meh, I'm with Greene on this one.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby Silophant » January 14th, 2016, 7:20 pm

But a passport doesn't fit in your wallet! Think of how inconvenient it is to not be able to fly a thousand miles away without having to bring some kind of small bag in addition to your wallet!
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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby FISHMANPET » January 14th, 2016, 8:06 pm

It makes no sense to require a passport for traveling within the country. The point of a passport is to travel somewhere outside the country. Also passports are expensive (though flying's not always cheap). But in this stupid situation I think "just get a passport you pleb" may be one of the stupidest solutions.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby mattaudio » January 14th, 2016, 8:07 pm

There will finally be one single thing inconvenient about flying.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby acs » January 14th, 2016, 8:20 pm

Guys, this is completely a moot issue now. The feds granted an extension for two years and there's no chance in heck that the legislature won't take this opportunity to get MN in compliance.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby FISHMANPET » January 14th, 2016, 8:41 pm

Excuse me but if there's a dead horse we're going to beat it!

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby David Greene » January 14th, 2016, 8:57 pm

It's neither a moot issue nor a dead horse. There are real non-tinfoil-hat reasons to oppose it.

http://www.nyclu.org/node/1321

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby grant1simons2 » January 14th, 2016, 9:28 pm

Uh going through security isn't an inconvenience to people? Or small legroom? Or extra baggage fees? Or turbulence? Or airport rush?

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby Tiller » January 14th, 2016, 10:24 pm

Considering matt said it, it was probably sarcasm.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby mulad » January 15th, 2016, 12:43 am

Why is Real ID pressing issue? Get a passport. The downsides are much greater than any supposed benefit, particularly if you're an immigrant.
It's neither a moot issue nor a dead horse. There are real non-tinfoil-hat reasons to oppose it.

http://www.nyclu.org/node/1321
I got whiplash reading these two comments. I'm confused. Did you suddenly evolve over the course of two hours, David? Anyway, I agree more with your second statement, and since the feds have added a two-year extension, I agree with others who say that we don't need to worry heavily about this right now. If any action is taken, it can wait until a regular session either this year or next year.

Since my driver's license happened to be expiring last November, I applied for an Enhanced Driver's License when I renewed. This is cheaper and perhaps easier than a passport -- only a $15 upgrade. But you do need to have a few identifying documents which I'm sure can be difficult for some people to obtain. I personally messed up reading the list and had to go to the Department of Public Safety office in downtown St. Paul twice (I initially forgot to bring something to verify my SSN). Applying also involved a questionnaire (which I still haven't been able to find online) asking things like my parents' birth names and where they were born -- I'm sure that some people are hazy on those details. Both of my parents had been born in cities right on the borders between two states -- while I was sure where one of them was born, I was hazier on the other (and that one had been born in one state/city but raised for the first few years on the other side of the border).

There aren't many DPS offices in the state that handle EDLs yet. Aside from several locations in the metro, there are only eight outstate sites: Austin, Bemidji, Detroit Lakes, Duluth, Mankato, Rochester, St. Cloud, and Virginia -- only one for every 10 outstate counties. Combined with the extra information that's needed when applying, I'm worried about the burden this creates. As for passports, I've always been a bit timid to apply for one due to the stress I remember experiencing when I got them back as a kid. From what I've heard from friends, it seems common to have at least a few photos rejected, though I can't find any statistics on how frequently this happens.

Both passports and EDLs also include RFID tags these days, which is another thing that worries me. Apparently the RFID on the EDL doesn't contain any personal data and is only used as a key for looking up the actual information in a government database, but it's always worrying when radio gets involved. RFID tags can be read at considerable distances, so it's conceivable that people could have their IDs scanned as they walk through a variety of places. We are now in an era where the tin-foil hat isn't crazy -- or at least the tin-foil wallet.

Of course, I use a Go-To card every day, so I've given up a certain amount of anonymity for that -- but at least that's a weaker connection to me. Metro Transit knows my name, address, and credit card info, but they don't know who my parents are or have my SSN. [Edit: And we have the option of paying with cash, buying anonymous monthly passes, or refilling anonymous Go-To cards manually at station platforms rather than through a linked credit card.] I suppose some of that info may have only been used for initial verification and may still be another step or two away from whatever database the government uses when checking IDs, but that's not clear to me at the moment, and it seems like it's something that could change at any moment.

If I'd thought about it more -- or known about that questionnaire -- I may not have gotten an EDL. Despite the (likely overblown) worries I have about the process of getting a passport, that may have been the better option. That way, I'd have the option of going out and about with an RFID-less piece of plastic, and leave my passport at home unless I was traveling. But it still strikes me as bizarre to need a passport to travel domestically.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby Silophant » January 15th, 2016, 1:50 am

Honestly, my biggest problem with the EDL is that you can only get it at driver testing locations. I renewed my DL in October, and I rounded up all the documents I needed, and went to the Hennepin County Government Center... and was told I had to go to St. Paul or Plymouth or Arden Hills. Since I work in DT Minneapolis, and don't drive to work, getting to one of those locations by 3:00 on a weekday is not trivial. So... a normal DL it was, then.

You're totally right that it is bizarre to need a passport to travel domestically, but I guess I don't see that as that big of a deal. Different viewpoints, I guess.
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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby QuietBlue » January 15th, 2016, 8:49 am

"Just use a passport?" Uh, great, that would work for 40-something percent of the Minnesota population, but not for the rest (and in many states, the percentage is even less). An awful lot of people have never had a need for a passport.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby mattaudio » January 15th, 2016, 9:26 am

I was being serious, and it was due to the concerns Mike Hicks stated. There are genuine civil liberties concern, and states should be in the driver's seat regarding licensure rather than the federal government. Hopefully the few remaining states, including MN, group together to leverage their current noncompliant status and ensure strict civil liberties protections in federal law.

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Re: MN State Senate and House Elections 2016

Postby trigonalmayhem » January 15th, 2016, 4:28 pm

But a passport doesn't fit in your wallet! Think of how inconvenient it is to not be able to fly a thousand miles away without having to bring some kind of small bag in addition to your wallet!
I'm sure the airlines will find a way to charge you for the extra luggage required to tote your passport around.

Also, maybe if we all have passports we'll be more ready for the inevitable split of the US into multiple nation-states someday! (/snark)

David Greene
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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby David Greene » January 16th, 2016, 12:54 am

Why is Real ID pressing issue? Get a passport. The downsides are much greater than any supposed benefit, particularly if you're an immigrant.
It's neither a moot issue nor a dead horse. There are real non-tinfoil-hat reasons to oppose it.

http://www.nyclu.org/node/1321
I got whiplash reading these two comments. I'm confused. Did you suddenly evolve over the course of two hours, David?
?? I am thoroughly confused by your confusion. Real ID is a real problem for immigrants. Both comments make the same point.

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Re: REAL ID Compliance

Postby LakeCharles » January 16th, 2016, 6:45 pm

Agreed. It's also a real problem to tell people to get a passport just to travel to Chicago.


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