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Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 11th, 2017, 6:49 pm
by EOst
RailBaronYarr wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 4:28 pm
The simple action of a developer introducing new, nice, expensive units doesn't unlock the older building landlord's *ability* to raise rents.
It certainly does if the new luxury development catalyzes neighborhood change, or anyway a change in perceptions of the neighborhood. This is arguably happening (albeit slowly) in Elliot Park, and would probably be happening faster if so many units there weren't locked-in as affordable.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 11th, 2017, 10:06 pm
by David Greene
RailBaronYarr wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 4:28 pm
David Greene wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 3:54 pm
Oh yes it does. I saw it in my own neighborhood. Once the luxury buildings went in, some older properties were quickly updated and presumably the rents increased. That's smart business for property owners. Not so great for people trying to stay in place. It's a real effect we have to acknowledge and address.
Again, you are confusing cause with effect. The simple action of a developer introducing new, nice, expensive units doesn't unlock the older building landlord's *ability* to raise rents. If a developer is already penciling an expensive unit, the demand was already there, and existing landlords are already aware of it. It's certainly possible that a small ma/pop landlord just didn't have access to the market information letting them know they can charge more (or, for moral reasons they chose not to for some time), but that's very, very rare. In almost all cases, landlords are leading the rent increase charge while developers follow suit.
The sequence was: Elan goes in, old apartments very quickly updated and a strong advertising campaign was undertaken. The eye test says there's a cause and effect. My sense is this was more of an "OMG we have to compete" rather than an opportunistic money grab. I have no basis for that sense but the timing really made it seem that way.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 12th, 2017, 10:05 am
by RailBaronYarr
EOst wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 6:49 pm
RailBaronYarr wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 4:28 pm
The simple action of a developer introducing new, nice, expensive units doesn't unlock the older building landlord's *ability* to raise rents.
It certainly does if the new luxury development catalyzes neighborhood change, or anyway a change in perceptions of the neighborhood. This is arguably happening (albeit slowly) in Elliot Park, and would probably be happening faster if so many units there weren't locked-in as affordable.
I spoke to this process specifically in my previous post. Development within an already-desirable/changing neighborhood is different than neighborhood-edge development. I would also argue that new luxury residential development along doesn't catalyze neighborhood change nearly as much as the addition of new commercial services (or even public services like better transit), and in any case all of these are still mostly preceded by neighborhood demographic changes. An example in my mind is the Chroma apartment - a new building in a still-diverse (racial and economic) neighborhood with reasonable (for new construction), but still expensive, units with a ground-level retail presence focused on wealthier residents. One could easily look at it and say it precipitated the high profile CPM rent-jacking half a block away. But the reality is this area has seen a slow but sure march in the commercial scene change along Nicollet and the lower-profile rent increases alongside it. New restaurants, updated facades, the list goes on - and it's hard to pinpoint any individual change as a bad thing, but they all have so much more cumulative effect on existing landlords' actions. Processes like this are almost always slow, step changes rarely happen the way we perceive it.
David Greene wrote:My sense is this was more of an "OMG we have to compete" rather than an opportunistic money grab. I have no basis for that sense but the timing really made it seem that way.
Again, I'm not going to say this is *never* how a landlord works, but isn't the emphasized part of your statement what I'm trying to get at? That many people see Action A, and Action B, and link cause and effect, and then some people (many of them very confidently and vocally) make that claim in newspapers or public policy-shaping-meetings?

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 12th, 2017, 10:18 am
by amiller92
David Greene wrote:
December 11th, 2017, 3:54 pm
Oh yes it does. I saw it in my own neighborhood. Once the luxury buildings went in, some older properties were quickly updated and presumably the rents increased.
What makes you think the luxury buildings were necessary to this change?

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 12th, 2017, 3:47 pm
by David Greene
I'm saying we don't know. And therefore we can't discount the effect.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 12th, 2017, 3:52 pm
by David Greene
RailBaronYarr wrote:
December 12th, 2017, 10:05 am
David Greene wrote:My sense is this was more of an "OMG we have to compete" rather than an opportunistic money grab. I have no basis for that sense but the timing really made it seem that way.
Again, I'm not going to say this is *never* how a landlord works, but isn't the emphasized part of your statement what I'm trying to get at? That many people see Action A, and Action B, and link cause and effect, and then some people (many of them very confidently and vocally) make that claim in newspapers or public policy-shaping-meetings?
The highlighted portion was meant to convey that I have no basis in my conclusion that the remodel and (presumed) rent increase was a survival strategy instead of an opportunistic money grab. I wasn't intending to make a comment about cause and effect _vis_a_vis_ luxury housing and housing affordability in general. I had addressed that earlier when I stated such cause and effect is unknowable without some deep research which AFAIK no one has done.

My whole point in all of this is that while it might be tempting to discount arguments about luxury housing making areas unaffordable, I don't think we have any data that lets us do that. We have to consider such effects. That does not mean such concerns should dominate everything else, just that they should be considered in good faith.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 12th, 2017, 3:57 pm
by amiller92
David Greene wrote:
December 12th, 2017, 3:47 pm
I'm saying we don't know. And therefore we can't discount the effect.
Except we have a more likely explanation - that the demand for luxury in the area was the cause for both the new building and the renovation - so we can discount the effect as being less likely than the alternative explanation.

Yes, it is theoretically possible that the new luxury building induced greater demand for luxury housing around it. But given the larger changes in the neighborhood it's hard to see it as that localized.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 12:24 am
by Didier
These politics threads have quieted down recently, so figured I'd bump this one up.

Almost one year in now, what's the feeling on Jacob Frey?

I've overall been pleasantly satisfied with him so far. The big concern during the election seemed to be that he was more style than substance, but I don't think that's played out. Like, he's definitely all over the place in terms of appearances, but he comes off as earnest and tireless, as opposed to grandstanding. It's almost nerdy in a sense, but in a good way. He also seems pretty engaged in a lot of issues, not just the high-profile or positive ones, and has taken some firm stands on difficult issues like the homeless encampment.

In other words, he's been pretty much what I'd hope a Minneapolis mayor would be.

What do you guys think?

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 10:19 am
by MNdible
I voted for Frey, and have been generally pleased so far.

I hope that he'll take on some sort of signature project -- one that's appropriate for the scope of powers of a Minneapolis mayor, and one that's achievable in a relatively short time span. Providing decent public restrooms downtown would be a good example. Solving systemic racism would be a bad example.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 11:16 am
by Bob Stinson's Ghost
His handling of the homeless camp certainly is bringing a fresh approach that has never been tried before.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 11:35 am
by xandrex
I have generally been pleased with his performance. I'm sure I've disagreed with him on certain things, but nothing stands out.

It is interesting that many lefties (for lack of better phrasing here) who chided him during the election seem to have quieted down quite a bit. Sure, they'll poke at individual things on Twitter, but clearly Frey has, if not won some of them over, at least quelled them.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 2:14 pm
by VacantLuxuries
He definitely wouldn't have been my first, second, or third choice in that election, but I'm definitely happy with is performance so far.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 29th, 2018, 6:45 pm
by phop
My main worry was that his ambition would get the better of him and he'd use the post to pursue obnoxious brand-building, but this hasn't happened at all.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 9:17 am
by fehler
Its almost funny, I know there was a mayor between Frey and RT, but I can't think of her name without looking it up.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 12:44 pm
by Mcgizz
Speaking of Mayor Frey.

Mayor Frey: Minneapolis police officer will be fired over racist Christmas tree decorations.

http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis- ... 501646051/

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: November 30th, 2018, 3:55 pm
by Blaisdell Greenway
The mayor wants to be popular, and fortunately in Minneapolis good policies are popular: Make Homes Happen, Full Service Community Schools, etc. He certainly appeared to be among the most downtown biz friendly as a candidate, but as mayor appears to have not pandered to those interests while maintaining their good graces.

My impression is he sees Graco Park on 8th Ave NE as his first signature project. It's certainly the first new public infrastructure to be announced on his watch, and he took the lead in ensuring all parties would come to the table and hammer out a solution.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 1st, 2018, 6:57 pm
by amiller92
He’s been fine to good. Don’t have any real gripes right now. Not really sure there’s been the big break from the prior regime that he tried to run on, but I’m not sure on that.


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Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 2nd, 2018, 7:09 pm
by Chef
Isn't citywide upzoning a signature project? In practical terms it will do more than a park. It is the most radical thing Minneapolis government has done in decades, no other big city in the US is doing it.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 6:59 am
by Silophant
I think it could have been, if he wanted it to be, but he seems to be ignoring it, at least in public. He mentioned it in a few speeches and interviews over the summer, but recently, when the actual voting's been happening, and judicious use of the bully pulpit maybe could have kept Lisa Goodman and friends from watering it down quite so much... silence from the mayor's office.

Re: Minneapolis Mayoral Election 2017

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 10:21 am
by QuietBlue
Silophant wrote:
December 3rd, 2018, 6:59 am
I think it could have been, if he wanted it to be, but he seems to be ignoring it, at least in public. He mentioned it in a few speeches and interviews over the summer, but recently, when the actual voting's been happening, and judicious use of the bully pulpit maybe could have kept Lisa Goodman and friends from watering it down quite so much... silence from the mayor's office.
I'm not surprised he's ignoring it. The areas of the city complaining the most about it are the ones that put him in office.