urbanMSP

It's absolutely true that city policy was to concentrate development (at least CBD type development) west of 5th Avenue. There was a very deliberate effort to maintain a tightly contained downtown core, and the zoning and comp plans absolutely reflected this.

That's not to say that somebody couldn't have built something smaller scale in Downtown east, but the new Wells Fargo campus, for example, definitely would have been taboo until quite recently.

Yep. According to this story "a strategy of fringe parking to capture employees on the outskirts of the downtown core" was apparently the policy from 1970 until 2003.

http://tcbmag.com/Industries/Real-Estat ... -De?page=2

Wait a second, that $220 million goes back to taxpayers for funding the stadium right? NOT to Zygi Wilf right?

Wait a second, that $220 million goes back to taxpayers for funding the stadium right? NOT to Zygi Wilf right?

What are you referring to? What $220 million? The State's portion of the stadium is capped at $500 million. They won't be using any more tax payer money for any overages, so either the Wilfs will have to pony up even more money, or things will have to be cut - if there is indeed an overage somewhere.

Wait a second, that $220 million goes back to taxpayers for funding the stadium right? NOT to Zygi Wilf right?

What are you referring to? What $220 million? The State's portion of the stadium is capped at $500 million. They won't be using any more tax payer money for any overages, so either the Wilfs will have to pony up even more money, or things will have to be cut - if there is indeed an overage somewhere.

Presumably he means the $220 million they reportedly got for the naming rights to the stadium, which the stadium legislation says Zygi gets, but for some reason some people see some sort of moral issue around who "should" get it.

Presumably he means the $220 million they reportedly got for the naming rights to the stadium, which the stadium legislation says Zygi gets, but for some reason some people see some sort of moral issue around who "should" get it.

Ah, thank you. I thought it was a reference to something in the Star Tribune article. But yes, regardless of all the minute details that went into this legislation, it passed and was signed into law. Legal or moral objections can't change the reality of the situation. There will always be those who despise public money being used for stadiums. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the law in the law.

Oh ok I didn't know Zygi got that money. I assumed the building was government owned, kinda like what the Soccer stadium was trying to set up you know sell the site back to the city then lease out the building so they can save money. I guess if zygi owns the building and has to pay taxes on the site he should be entitled to that money for selling the naming rights to his building. He is paying taxes on the building right?

PigsEye (and others in the past, and likely future) decided it was better to regurgitate a 2 year old "outrage" than spend 5-10 minutes educating his/herself about the topic to be "outraged" about.

This board is great ~99% of the time, but much less so on this particular thread.

I thought we were past this. I hope we can all civilly discuss this stadium and surrounding area as an urban development topic moving forward. Here's to hoping!

Not gonna lie, a pro urban development forum is one of the last places I would have expected to find stadium haters.

Because a monolithic football cathedral adds so much to the urban character of a city?

Not gonna lie, a pro urban development forum is one of the last places I would have expected to find stadium haters.

When there's never enough money to build transit improvements or do things like bring sidewalks up to code at more than a glacial pace you'll probably find plenty of people mad about huge expenditures of public money on a stadium. Not even getting into all the park garbage where they're giving away control of public spaces.

Shamelessly piling on: Everything about this stadium sucks. There.

Oh ok I didn't know Zygi got that money. I assumed the building was government owned, kinda like what the Soccer stadium was trying to set up you know sell the site back to the city then lease out the building so they can save money. I guess if zygi owns the building and has to pay taxes on the site he should be entitled to that money for selling the naming rights to his building. He is paying taxes on the building right?

We'll, they could have kept the naming rights for the stadium authority, but as almost the entire point of building the thing is to get more revenue for the team it's a silly thing to gripe about.

Yes, they could have tried to get Zygi to pay for more of the stadium, including by keeping the naming revenues, but if that's what you mean, say it and stop pretending there is something unjust about what has been the deal all along.

Oh I don't watch football so I don't have much invested interested in the topic. I guess if Zygi is paying a leasing amount it surely must be pretty expensive for him right? I guess since the city is leasing the building out to him the city must be charging him an amount that not only cover the maintenance and operational cost but also helps the city gain the typical profit. I guess must be around 10% at least right? I mean the city would never agree to a rental idea where they were losing money right? That way then I guess Zygi can keep the naming rights, because they city was already making a profit on the investment. This is happening right?

No. The zygidoogle fail dome fails on fiscal, common sense, and moral grounds. But we already argued about it in circles until we were dizzy so now it doesn't matter, I guess. Plus, football.

Ok I think I get it...

City build a stadium with taxpayer funds, and a portion of funds from Vikings. The stadium is city owned and the city covers the taxes. The lease for Vikings does not cover the costs of maintenance and repairs, and the Vikings get to sublease the naming rights too. It must be because the VIkings are one of the best teams in the NFL right? They gotta be an amazing team that bring in millions of revenue for the state to cover the losses in the stadium costs and lease shortfalls right?

You know that this stadium will be used for more than just Vikings games, right?

GACKKKK! I'm stuck in a time loop!

And it's 65% complete, there's absolutely no turning back, it's a done deal, nothing is going to change that...

You know that this stadium will be used for more than just Vikings games, right?

oh that's great news! How much profit does the city make when you factor in these other events? They at least break even right?