Rumors: A Historical Record of Mystery

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min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 11th, 2014, 10:21 pm

I can see the Ritz Block office tower or the TCF block office tower breaching that threshold. I can also see one or two residential projects exceed that height as well. If there is ever a mixed-use project on a prominent block then I can see potential for a new supertall.

Too bad RetiredBanker never revealed whatever it is he wanted to reveal about 2 months ago now, otherwise we may know some of this is imminent.

kregger22

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby kregger22 » June 12th, 2014, 12:00 pm

^^^^Yes, definitely a bummer we now don't know what he was talking about.

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby holmstar » June 13th, 2014, 9:02 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:Too bad RetiredBanker never revealed whatever it is he wanted to reveal about 2 months ago now, otherwise we may know some of this is imminent.
Sounds like he would have, but was offended by all the anti rumor sentiment.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 13th, 2014, 6:02 pm

holmstar wrote:
min-chi-cbus wrote:Too bad RetiredBanker never revealed whatever it is he wanted to reveal about 2 months ago now, otherwise we may know some of this is imminent.
Sounds like he would have, but was offended by all the anti rumor sentiment.
I personally hope not, cuz even though that was frustrating it wouldn't keep me from sharing fun news like that. Besides, even if he DID feel that way he hasn't explained that to me.

My guess is that he was maybe sharing too much and had to zip it for his partners. Who knows though?

*EDIT/UPDATE: I did just hear back from RetiredBanker and you were right -- he decided to opt out of dispelling the lengthy (and I do mean lengthy: 10,000 words, he said!) details behind current and especially future growth happenings in Minneapolis. The long and the short of it is he does not want to commit the effort if some people here don't share in the same enthusiasm as he and others do. Now I really wish I hadn't prompted this whole thing by sending the teaser message in the 1st place, but what's done is done. For what it's worth, I apologize. On the other hand, some of you guys may want to tone down the snark and cynicism if you want the true "Ballers" to participate on this forum and feel open in doing so. Let people speculate and speak their mind how they want and if you don't like it just ignore it......it can't hurt. Just my $0.02.

Viktor Vaughn
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Viktor Vaughn » June 13th, 2014, 10:56 pm

He didn't spill the confidential details about projects because people here were snarky and unappreciative?

That defies credibility.

We don't know these details because the developers choose to develop their projects confidentially until they're ready to go public. I'm sure RT knows what he does in confidence, and someone can't openly break that without forfeiting trust. So he's stuck in the middle - wanting to do more than assure us 'we haven't seen anything yet,' but unable to break news.

I enjoyed RT's posts and am interested to read anything you guys are willing to leak. But you honestly think we would have learned any more details if not for the skepticism and snark?

Retired Banker was right. We just need to be patient.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 13th, 2014, 11:32 pm

I think you have some pretty good points there, but yes, cynicism could be dialed down a notch (or three) I think -- especially when it comes to people's personal opinions or visions. I know I've been attacked for my POV before and all it does it make me want to limit what I express. I don't think that kind of cynicism brings in any kind of positive results.

IllogicalJake
Target Field
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby IllogicalJake » June 14th, 2014, 5:47 pm

Viktor Vaughn wrote:He didn't spill the confidential details about projects because people here were snarky and unappreciative?

That defies credibility.
Are you kidding? Why would you help people that are continually nothing but assholes to you? And so he stops, and now it's "Oh, he stopped talking to us because we're assholes? He must not've been credible." That stance doesn't even make sense, does it?

And, seriously, some of the comments were beyond asshole (at least to me, not speaking for everyone.) I certainly would've stopped even before he did. People don't join communities to be insulted and ridiculed. Period. They come for enthusiasm and discussion.
i talk too much. web dev, downtown. admin @ tower.ly

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby holmstar » June 14th, 2014, 9:10 pm

IllogicalJake wrote:Are you kidding? Why would you help people that are continually nothing but assholes to you? And so he stops, and now it's "Oh, he stopped talking to us because we're assholes? He must not've been credible." That stance doesn't even make sense, does it?

And, seriously, some of the comments were beyond asshole (at least to me, not speaking for everyone.) I certainly would've stopped even before he did. People don't join communities to be insulted and ridiculed. Period. They come for enthusiasm and discussion.
Thank you. I agree completely.

Viktor Vaughn
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Viktor Vaughn » June 15th, 2014, 10:41 am

IllogicalJake wrote:
Viktor Vaughn wrote:He didn't spill the confidential details about projects because people here were snarky and unappreciative?

That defies credibility.
Are you kidding? Why would you help people that are continually nothing but assholes to you? And so he stops, and now it's "Oh, he stopped talking to us because we're assholes? He must not've been credible." That stance doesn't even make sense, does it?

And, seriously, some of the comments were beyond asshole (at least to me, not speaking for everyone.) I certainly would've stopped even before he did. People don't join communities to be insulted and ridiculed. Period. They come for enthusiasm and discussion.
Of course ridicule and rudeness will push people out of a community. I did not say anything to the contrary. Did you read the part of my comment you didn't quote?

I objected to this being floated as the reason we don't know about more upcoming projects, when it's obvious that even if we did nothing but shower "the ballers" with unquestioning thanks, we still wouldn't know the details because of strict confidentiality.

We should all be nice to each other, and that should go without saying. I'm just tired of the recurring narrative that'd we know a lot more if only we hadn't run some people outta here with pitchforks. But I really don't remember anything ad hominem against the former banker, just a bit of skepticism among all the praise and adoration. So if we're going to endlessly rehash this meme, will someone at least provide a quote that shows what was so beyond the pale?

It'd be cool to have more posters from the construction industry explaining their techniques or developers laying out why certain options are more cost-effective than others. Being civil could help attract those voices.

But the top-down approach is really suited to traditional media. A developer can go to the business journal when they're ready to make something public. Sometimes there's even an unspoken quid pro quo of access for sympathetic coverage.

This forum gets its value by being bottom-up. Hundreds of eyes watching the city ready to pipe in at the first sighting of renovation at long-boarded up restaurant or a soil testing truck in a parking lot. So very little in the way of development gets by this forum unnoticed (unless its in St Paul...). That's why this forum is breaking news all the time. And a vigorous and sometimes contentious debate can frame an issues in a way that reporters sometimes borrow for their story angles.

It's so much better to influence the conversation from our collective experiences, observations, conversations and debates than just being another mouthpiece for Opus, Mortenson, or the Met Council. They've got enough of those in the traditional media.

What would be real success for the forum, in my view, is if those voices felt they had to come here and make their case in order to influence the narrative. But somehow I don't expect a Hennepin County traffic engineer to come and defend their decision not to turn a particular road into a multi-way blvd anytime soon.

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby holmstar » June 16th, 2014, 8:03 am

I objected to this being floated as the reason we don't know about more upcoming projects, when it's obvious that even if we did nothing but shower "the ballers" with unquestioning thanks, we still wouldn't know the details because of strict confidentiality
The attitude you are showing here is a great example of why "the ballers" (<-- seriously is this necessary?), couldn't care less about sticking their neck out for this community. If you don't care for the information that they are providing, then keep your mouth shut. A lot of us DO enjoy whatever tid-bits that they can provide, even if they can't get into much detail.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby mattaudio » June 16th, 2014, 8:09 am

Can we keep this discussion in the proper thread?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=38607

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 161
Joined: October 29th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby holmstar » June 16th, 2014, 8:46 am

mattaudio wrote:Can we keep this discussion in the proper thread?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=38607
Another great example. :roll:

David Greene
IDS Center
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby David Greene » June 16th, 2014, 11:13 am

holmstar wrote:
I objected to this being floated as the reason we don't know about more upcoming projects, when it's obvious that even if we did nothing but shower "the ballers" with unquestioning thanks, we still wouldn't know the details because of strict confidentiality
The attitude you are showing here is a great example of why "the ballers" (<-- seriously is this necessary?), couldn't care less about sticking their neck out for this community. If you don't care for the information that they are providing, then keep your mouth shut. A lot of us DO enjoy whatever tid-bits that they can provide, even if they can't get into much detail.
Are you serious? Everything Viktor wrote here is spot on. It is not insulting someone to say, quite reasonably, that they have confidentiality agreements to hold to.

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mister.shoes
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Rumors!

Postby mister.shoes » June 16th, 2014, 11:45 am

Maybe, just maybe the idea of sharing even tidbits of confidential information with an increasingly high-profile forum such as this one isn't worth the potential risk. There are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on these proposals, especially the "super tall" ones that would play in the incredibly competitive commercial space. If any one of us here were in a position to be trusted with inside information on landmark developments, we'd certainly think at least twice about sharing it publicly here—no matter how it's received on the other end.
The problem with being an introvert online is that no one knows you're just hanging out and listening.

Unity77
Landmark Center
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby Unity77 » June 16th, 2014, 2:00 pm

mattaudio wrote:Can we keep this discussion in the proper thread?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=38607
Actually, the Minneapolis / St. Paul Development News subforum has been a better read than this site for quite sometime now.

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 161
Joined: October 29th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby holmstar » June 17th, 2014, 7:51 am

David Greene wrote:
holmstar wrote:
I objected to this being floated as the reason we don't know about more upcoming projects, when it's obvious that even if we did nothing but shower "the ballers" with unquestioning thanks, we still wouldn't know the details because of strict confidentiality
The attitude you are showing here is a great example of why "the ballers" (<-- seriously is this necessary?), couldn't care less about sticking their neck out for this community. If you don't care for the information that they are providing, then keep your mouth shut. A lot of us DO enjoy whatever tid-bits that they can provide, even if they can't get into much detail.
Are you serious? Everything Viktor wrote here is spot on. It is not insulting someone to say, quite reasonably, that they have confidentiality agreements to hold to.
I don't disagree that they have confidentiality agreements. I disagree with the attitude that people give to others that are trying to share their excitement, and what little information they can provide. Using terms like "ballers" shows exactly the type of disrespect that our forum is showing to these people. What is the big problem with welcoming all? How many times has someone wanted to share a rumor or other information for which they can't legally provide evidence for only to be derided and made to feel that they are providing no value. Yes, we all know that unannounced proposals often never get past that stage, but wouldn't you be at all interested to hear what is being contemplated? All anybody here seems to want to do is to tell these folks to head over to SSC, "and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

holmstar
Nicollet Mall
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Joined: October 29th, 2013, 2:59 pm

Re: Rumors!

Postby holmstar » June 17th, 2014, 7:54 am

mister.shoes wrote:Maybe, just maybe the idea of sharing even tidbits of confidential information with an increasingly high-profile forum such as this one isn't worth the potential risk. There are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on these proposals, especially the "super tall" ones that would play in the incredibly competitive commercial space. If any one of us here were in a position to be trusted with inside information on landmark developments, we'd certainly think at least twice about sharing it publicly here—no matter how it's received on the other end.
Except that confidentiality ISNT why retiredbanker chose not to share. There's a post on SSC with a note from RB explaining it. It's completely due to people's attitudes toward him and others.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 17th, 2014, 8:54 am

Viktor Vaughn wrote: It'd be cool to have more posters from the construction industry explaining their techniques or developers laying out why certain options are more cost-effective than others. Being civil could help attract those voices.
This is what I HOPE to achieve within the company I'm working in, and eventually become a bigger part of this type of decision making.

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Rumors!

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 17th, 2014, 8:57 am

holmstar wrote:
mister.shoes wrote:Maybe, just maybe the idea of sharing even tidbits of confidential information with an increasingly high-profile forum such as this one isn't worth the potential risk. There are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on these proposals, especially the "super tall" ones that would play in the incredibly competitive commercial space. If any one of us here were in a position to be trusted with inside information on landmark developments, we'd certainly think at least twice about sharing it publicly here—no matter how it's received on the other end.
Except that confidentiality ISNT why retiredbanker chose not to share. There's a post on SSC with a note from RB explaining it. It's completely due to people's attitudes toward him and others.
He sent me that note as well but I decided not to share it (didn't think it would do any good).

min-chi-cbus
Capella Tower
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Re: Current & Proposed Downtown Minneapolis Projects

Postby min-chi-cbus » June 17th, 2014, 8:59 am

holmstar wrote: Using terms like "ballers" shows exactly the type of disrespect that our forum is showing to these people.
I used that term (being a bit tongue and cheek), and he's mimicking it.


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