Accessory Dwelling Units

[RailBaronYarr]

Sewer most be hooked up on the mainline. Believe me. Water and gas can come off the house.

I just got off the phone with a city of Minneapolis employee who was intimately involved in the ADU ordinance language and permitting for ADUs. Sewer can definitely be tied into the main house for a detached ADU. The only requirement is that you have a backflow preventer in the ADU. Bloomington requires a separate connection to the sewer system, and they had many talks with them. The city found that a separate connection, which would have also triggered the SAC fee, would make a detached ADU very cost-prohibitive.

She also warned about lower flow if you tie into the existing water pipes. Unless you've recently built a home, the pipe from the main to the meter will potentially be under-sized for both a home and ADU (depending on occupancy, usage, etc). So that may be a consideration, either up-front or down the line.

I also asked about gas and she said they didn't contact Xcel or Centerpoint directly but didn't expect there to be an issue.

[seanrichardryan]

Ah ok. St. Paul requires a separate connection outside of the main dwelling, which is where I am. Either way you're getting a big hole and now a new basement floor

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[RailBaronYarr]

Yeah, it's gonna suck either way. But a trench to the front would have meant ripping out a new deck and snaking around two big trees OR tearing up the concrete path on the other side (if even allowed given it's a 4' sidewalk along the lot line). Plus there's a drain access point about 6' from the back wall of my basement. Makes things MUCH easier (should I decide to do this all.. still up in the air).

[mattaudio]

So, has anyone built one yet? Any idea what the price range would be for a detached ADU on a standard 40+ lot in place of a standard garage?

[PhilmerPhil]

My parents just finished an attached ADU in their basement. Anyone looking to rent a 1BR+den in Linden Hills?

[Archiapolis]

So, has anyone built one yet? Any idea what the price range would be for a detached ADU on a standard 40+ lot in place of a standard garage?

What we are seeing for good quality construction is in the $200/square foot range for residential. Obviously it depends largely on insulation, window choices, finishes, etc.

There are some savings to be sure to just do frost footings for the wall and a slab on grade but it's not a "buyers market" right now due to the super-heated nature of these cities/markets.

[RailBaronYarr]

I can confirm that I got several rough bids based for work, which would include general contracting. The design would be a 2-car garage near the maximum footprint with an apartment above. $200/sqft was cited both times, but they noted that's for the finished space, so having a garage (with insulation, windows, etc) beneath it would add more. There's a 400 sqft apartment above a 600 sqft garage in S Mpls that was built for $200k. Another recently completed project in SW was a 1 car garage with finished area to the side and above, and it cost nearly $200k. Based on my design, they estimated $175-200k. Which is crazy. And also makes a project aimed primarily at rental income, even in my area fairly close to Uptown, basically impossible (or, you could profit, but you'd be better just investing that money).

[MNdible]

And there, in a nutshell, you have the problem with building market rate apartments.

[Archiapolis]

And there, in a nutshell, you have the problem with building market rate apartments.

Specifically, the "curve" breaks down as you approach 50 units which is what is so mind-boggling about a few of the recent infill projects (2008 Bryant Ave etc).

Also, I heard from an unnamed source that staff/City Council is going to consider upwardly revising the square footage limits on ADUs (think Portland sizes). We'll see...

[mattaudio]

Regarding RBY's earlier post about tying in sewer and water: My five year plan includes a new basement bath and some significant changes in my basement slab - for a basement bath in my future 1BR non-ADU "basement suite" (I have no plans to rent it out). I may as well run a sewer pipe to the back side of my slab at the same time, so I could eventually extend to my garage in back without additional work under my slab or trenching around the side of the house.

I think this gets to a bigger point: If people are holding onto houses for long periods, and are intimately familiar with the systems and structures of their property with possible future end-states in mind.... Then it becomes relatively easy to invest a few hundred extra dollars here and there as other projects come up, in order to set the stage for significant cost savings when other projects take place.

I can't even begin to point out all the ways this type of thinking has saved me effort down the line as I continue to do major work on my house. For example, when I got a new furnace system four years ago I spent extra move the location of it in my basement (since new furnaces don't vent exhaust gases via chimney) which gained me about 150sf of future usable basement space, for about $400 in a few extra hours by the heating contractor's best sheet metal guy. Or right now how I'm plumbing an upstairs bath with design considerations for a future basement bath as well. But I have spent significant amounts of time planning different scenarios, making trade-offs, and spending a little extra money here and there. You can't just be a passive project-oriented homeowner that lets contractors do whatever it is to meet the immediate objective - you have to specify clear requirements up front, which isn't always easy.

[mattaudio]

City of Lakes Community Land Trust is proposing a new house with attached ADU at 40th and 12th Ave S.
http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 186934.pdf

It looks like the old building (duplex?) must have come down... https://goo.gl/maps/veBEqj2zJm22

Of course, I'm of the opinion that this area should allow duplexes (at least) as of right. You could easily fit three or more units on this lot, since it's on a corner. But, it's encouraging to see ADUs being built from the start and branded as "multigenerational living."

[Archiapolis]

I'll just leave this here since no one else has:

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 136454.pdf

Sneak preview: 1300 sf of habitable and parking area on all levels or 16% of the lot area whichever is greater
Footprint of detached ADU and any other parking areas not to exceed 676 sf or 10% of lot area whichever is greater

[FISHMANPET]

Yes that is the ADU application packet. Is there something new here?

[Archiapolis]

The "sneak preview" square footages listed are increased versus the earlier ordinance which had stricter (smaller) square footages/limitations.

[RailBaronYarr]

Also, "Not less than 5 percent of the entire elevation facing an alley or public street shall be windows." used to be 10%. Of all the requirements in the ADU ordinance, this one made the most sense to me to prevent any new ADUs (new construction or conversion of an existing garage) from continuing the blank-walls-against-the-alley look we've got. But 5% still might be enough to break up the blank space and get some eyes on the alley.

Owner occupancy still a (ridiculous) requirement. But these are good changes for the detached ADU design. 1,000 square feet inclusive of parking area was way too limiting.

[mattaudio]

I'm always excited to see new ADUs, but then I saw this one proposed at 42nd and Dight. http://minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/pub ... 193943.pdf
That creepy a.f. mural...

I actually talked to a city planner about this exact scenario, where a lot has one of those tiny "alley cottages." They said the ADU ordinance has language that should allow for the alley cottage to essentially become the ADU, and then build a new standard SFH at the standard setback. I have no idea why the homeowner wouldn't do that instead. He'll basically have two ADUs crammed up against his alley.

[John21]

Yeah, that looks really awkward. It looks like there's room for a sfh in the front yard, but obviously that's a much more expensive way to go. I didn't read really close but did it mention any changes to the outside of the current home. If they matched, it might not look quite as bad. That mural though...

[mattaudio]

I will buy and tear down a Healy house for every post.

[mister.shoes]

You animal, you.

[amiller92]

It's takes a true evil genius to profit on apartments with free rent.


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