The High Cost of Free Parking

Introductions - Urban Issues - Miscellaneous News, Topics, Interests
helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » April 10th, 2013, 3:17 am

Named after the eponymous and definitive treatise on the subject http://www.amazon.com/The-High-Cost-Fre ... 1884829988.

I read this following sentence in the context of, yes, Cincinnati: "usiness groups are pushing the city to purge the zoning code of parking minimums [...]" http://www.planetizen.com/node/61779

This begs the question, is there a similar push in Minneapolis / St. Paul ? Does anyone know?

Rich
Rice Park
Posts: 408
Joined: June 30th, 2012, 7:12 pm

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby Rich » April 10th, 2013, 7:26 am

This article notes that the city eliminated minimum parking requirements for buildings in the downtown zoning district in 2009.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... ml?refer=y

helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » April 10th, 2013, 8:02 am

Ah yes. That's great.

Yet there remains a long and preposterously specific list of off street parking requirements categorized by land use: http://library.municode.com/HTML/11490/ ... EPARE.html

I like how it requires fewer parking spaces per hole for miniature golf than for normal-sized golf.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby mattaudio » April 10th, 2013, 8:26 am

The high cost of free parking.

The line item for "structured parking" for Downtown Rochester stands at $130 million. $90 million from the state, as part of this DMC legislation being pushed through, and $40 million from the city. If built at market construction rates in one location (although others have heard it would be two ramps) it would be the largest parking structure in the United States.

The high cost of free parking.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby mattaudio » April 10th, 2013, 2:24 pm


twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby twincitizen » April 11th, 2013, 8:49 pm


helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » April 12th, 2013, 2:24 am

This is both really cool and utterly terrifying.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby twincitizen » April 12th, 2013, 7:06 am

Indeed. I want to print that out and hang it in my cube at work. I work for an inner suburb that is quite urban, but just doesn't "get it" on parking issues yet. Then again, how can you blame them when our central cities don't either.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby twincitizen » April 13th, 2013, 10:33 am


helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » July 14th, 2013, 3:24 am

A great article by Matthew Yglesias:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... on_toolbar

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2625
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby RailBaronYarr » July 14th, 2013, 11:02 am

His follow-up was a little better, I think. The link above kinda goes wishy-washy on plan forward with parking permits that help protect the status quo in holding their parking spots. While they could be tradable, that would be difficult to broaden the range of people who could use the spaces to, well, anyone.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... _them.html

User avatar
FISHMANPET
IDS Center
Posts: 4241
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 2:19 pm
Location: Corcoran

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby FISHMANPET » July 14th, 2013, 11:40 am

His idea for tradeable parking permits is terrible, but even he admits that. It's a blatant giveaway to incumbent parkers in a way that shuts them up so real reform can happen. And those permits will eventually filter into the general population as well, albeit it'll be mostly the wealthy people that get them.

helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » August 30th, 2013, 7:28 am

According to the Star Tribune, downtown Minneapolis is "drowning in a sea of parking lots." (See http://www.startribune.com/local/minnea ... 40936.html)

But our trusted local anchors also report about the parking "premium" (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/1037 ... -a-premium); the Pioneer Press prefers the term "onslaught" (http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_ ... -onslaught).

The sad bit about these news reports is that they never offer readers sensible advice, such as : "There are three sports games tonight; it might make sense to carpool."

Pensacola Parking Syndrome? (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/arts/ ... d=all&_r=0?) Fearmongering local press? Perhaps a bit of both. Either way, it's tiresome to be constantly lectured about the virtues of the free market, but when it comes to the market for parking that whole "supply and demand" thing goes out the window and there is supposed to be an endless supply by divine right.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby MNdible » August 30th, 2013, 9:50 am

[shrugs]

At least in the downtown zones, parking in Minneapolis is effectively market driven. There aren't any meaningful code requirements that drive the provision of parking.

Viktor Vaughn
Target Field
Posts: 593
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 6:37 pm

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby Viktor Vaughn » August 30th, 2013, 10:07 am

I doubt that. Do you think on street parking is market rate? When I was a downtown resident I could park on the street all the time for $25 per year.

Also, many places have bundled parking with other services. The downtown Target validates with a purchase. My boss gets free underground parking as part of our office lease. The public has spent hundreds of millions to subsidize public parking ramps. Apartments include parking in their rent. Retailers subsidize "Do the Town" parking for shoppers. The stadium legislation mandated 2,500 spots connected to the stadium. We're living with the results of former public policy which tore down buildings for cheap parking.

Parking downtown is not even close to "market-driven". The downtown parking situation is a result of public policy and subsidy much more than markets.

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby MNdible » August 30th, 2013, 10:33 am

I'm not sure what parts of downtown you're talking about, but in the core you can spend over $25/day parking at a meter.

My point about the provision of parking is that it's being driven by private entities and their read of what the market demands, not by government requirements. Market driven. I wasn't arguing that individual parkers are paying their full freight.

As for the stadium parking, that's easily the least market distorting part of the whole stadium deal.

Viktor Vaughn
Target Field
Posts: 593
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 6:37 pm

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby Viktor Vaughn » August 30th, 2013, 11:01 am

I'm not sure what parts of downtown you're talking about, but in the core you can spend over $25/day parking at a meter.
The Northwest edge of Elliot Park. Just a four block walk from my job in one of the big three office towers. I do give the city credit for implementing meters that can respond to market fluctuations.
My point about the provision of parking is that it's being driven by private entities and their read of what the market demands, not by government requirements. Market driven. I wasn't arguing that individual parkers are paying their full freight.
Right. But, when parking is paid for by shoppers or renters regardless of if they use it; that's a market-warping parking subsidy. Besides, I listed a few examples of government driven subsidies.
As for the stadium parking, that's easily the least market distorting part of the whole stadium deal.
Now, there's something we can agree on. Yet it doesn't negate the fact that it's also a very recent example of government requirements warping the downtown parking market on a huge scale.

ECtransplant
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 711
Joined: June 1st, 2012, 9:56 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby ECtransplant » December 4th, 2013, 11:43 pm

http://m.thestar.com/#!/business/redire ... 01dee65994

Toronto developer talking about how people want less parking than they used to, how parking minimums drive up costs, and that how we may see underground parking lots converted to other uses

seanrichardryan
IDS Center
Posts: 4092
Joined: June 3rd, 2012, 9:33 pm
Location: Merriam Park, St. Paul

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby seanrichardryan » January 20th, 2014, 9:41 pm

"As Minneapolis grows, so do clashes over parking"
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/2 ... page=1&c=y
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

helsinki
Landmark Center
Posts: 289
Joined: October 9th, 2012, 2:01 am

Re: The High Cost of Free Parking

Postby helsinki » January 21st, 2014, 8:16 am

"As Minneapolis grows, so do clashes over parking"
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/2 ... page=1&c=y
If anyone asks incredulously "How are you going to get 100,000 more people without needing a whole lot more parking" or something along those lines, you can reply: "Vancouver pulled it of so there's no reason Minneapolis can't also." See: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/08/05/in ... ion-rises/


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests