Twin Cities' National and Global Image

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Realstreets
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Realstreets » November 20th, 2014, 8:26 am

Toronto isn't even that far north it's like 20 miles from Buffalo... I really like this idea and I already jokingly refer to living in "the north," also helps that it's a Game of Thrones reference. I think "midwest" is not specific enough, as pointed out by the map in the article.

Did anyone end up going to the event?

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 20th, 2014, 8:42 am

FISHMANPET wrote:Yeah I can totally see the UP being "North" but the LP being "Midwest" furthering the divide between the two.
Ask any Ohioan if Michigan is like them or North and they'll say North. It lies entirely above the imaginary line that is the northern border to Ohio, Indiana and Illinois (and essentially Iowa as well). I'd call all of Michigan part of the "new North", and I'd be proud to include them. So it'd be:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
North/South Dakota(s)


The Twin Cities and Minnesota would make a natural "Capital of the North" if this were the region -- it's dead center of that land mass. Iowa is middle ground and so is Chicago (Chicago is so much more like Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota than it's like the rest of the state, like Bloomington, Normal, or Cairo).

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 20th, 2014, 8:45 am

acs wrote:"Choose One, Millennials: Upward Mobility or Affordable Housing"

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2014/11/ ... ng/382953/

Might not come as a surprise, but the cities with the greatest inter-generational upward mobility also have the least affordable housing based on median income. There are only three cities that have top 10 upward mobility and >50% affordability, Salt Lake City, Pittsburgh, and you guessed it Minneapolis. The controversial thing is the author tries to conflate this with the traditional idea of the American Dream, ending "[...] the best advice for young people seeking the American Dream isn't "Go West, young man" or "Go East, young woman." It's "Check out Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, and Salt Lake City."
Sounds to me like housing in the Twin Cities is simply undervalued....

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Snelbian » November 20th, 2014, 8:47 am

mullen wrote:i never thought of this either but it's so obvious. we are "north" and should embrace that. i have to admit i've thrown out, "it's sorta near chicago" to describe where i'm from for instance when i back packed through europe. it's the most obvious frame of reference for "midwest". i found people were not as familiar with the term midwest but know our large cities well. and when i said minneapolis, i would then say, "prince is from here". and they all know prince lol.

prince is like one of this states' best frame of reference.
I find that when I'm in the Mediterranean most of the people who are familiar with Minnesota know sort of where it is because of the TImberwolves. From a local perspective that seems downright bizarre, but basketball and the NBA are BIG in a lot of Europe now.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Minneboy » November 20th, 2014, 8:51 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:Yeah I can totally see the UP being "North" but the LP being "Midwest" furthering the divide between the two.
Ask any Ohioan if Michigan is like them or North and they'll say North. It lies entirely above the imaginary line that is the northern border to Ohio, Indiana and Illinois (and essentially Iowa as well). I'd call all of Michigan part of the "new North", and I'd be proud to include them. So it'd be:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
North/South Dakota(s)


The Twin Cities and Minnesota would make a natural "Capital of the North" if this were the region -- it's dead center of that land mass. Iowa is middle ground and so is Chicago (Chicago is so much more like Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota than it's like the rest of the state, like Bloomington, Normal, or Cairo).
OUCH my head is spinning.

acs
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby acs » November 20th, 2014, 9:07 am

Snelbian wrote:
mullen wrote:i never thought of this either but it's so obvious. we are "north" and should embrace that. i have to admit i've thrown out, "it's sorta near chicago" to describe where i'm from for instance when i back packed through europe. it's the most obvious frame of reference for "midwest". i found people were not as familiar with the term midwest but know our large cities well. and when i said minneapolis, i would then say, "prince is from here". and they all know prince lol.

prince is like one of this states' best frame of reference.
I find that when I'm in the Mediterranean most of the people who are familiar with Minnesota know sort of where it is because of the TImberwolves. From a local perspective that seems downright bizarre, but basketball and the NBA are BIG in a lot of Europe now.
Ricky Rubio was pretty much the LeBron James Phenom of Spain before he came here, so it's not that surprising.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby FISHMANPET » November 20th, 2014, 10:15 am

min-chi-cbus wrote:
FISHMANPET wrote:Yeah I can totally see the UP being "North" but the LP being "Midwest" furthering the divide between the two.
Ask any Ohioan if Michigan is like them or North and they'll say North. It lies entirely above the imaginary line that is the northern border to Ohio, Indiana and Illinois (and essentially Iowa as well). I'd call all of Michigan part of the "new North", and I'd be proud to include them. So it'd be:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
North/South Dakota(s)


The Twin Cities and Minnesota would make a natural "Capital of the North" if this were the region -- it's dead center of that land mass. Iowa is middle ground and so is Chicago (Chicago is so much more like Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota than it's like the rest of the state, like Bloomington, Normal, or Cairo).
I was thinking that the UP would want to be distinct from the Rust Belt identiy of LP and Indiana/Ohio etc, but now that I think about it more, most of the Midwest isn't Rust Belt. The Midwest/North line wouldn't really be at all related to the difference between agriculture states and industrial states.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mattaudio » November 20th, 2014, 11:39 am

The inflection point of Midwest vs North would probably be the inflection point heading southwest from Chicagoland. Anyone have a feeling on whether the Milwaukee metro would more strongly identify with the North or the Midwest?

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2014, 12:15 pm

mattaudio wrote:The inflection point of Midwest vs North would probably be the inflection point heading southwest from Chicagoland. Anyone have a feeling on whether the Milwaukee metro would more strongly identify with the North or the Midwest?
North. min-chi-cbus is correct that Chicago (and Milwaukee) are way more like Minneapolis than southern Illinois. It's a whole different world south of the Chicago metro. Northern and southern Indiana are likewise separate cultures. South of about Purdue U. things get southernized pretty quickly.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby EOst » November 20th, 2014, 12:28 pm

Even in Lafayette, IN (Purdue) you'll hear southern accents and get offered sweet tea. Was really confused the first time I visited there.

The Midwest mostly exists as a border region between the others.

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Realstreets
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Realstreets » November 20th, 2014, 1:47 pm

If anyone would like to read a great book on US regional history and cultures, I highly recommend American Nations by Collin Woodard. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/america ... 0143122029

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mullen » November 20th, 2014, 2:24 pm

isn't milwaukee part of "chicagoland" basically? it just seems to have been sucked into chicago's sphere of influence like a borg. i'm sure it'd be the same if were so close to a mega city like chicago. in that sense i prefer mpls/st paul being more isolated.

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Nathan
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Nathan » November 20th, 2014, 6:32 pm

We're definitely already falling behind on this North thing... JEALOUS!

http://www.dezeen.com/2014/11/20/chengd ... hitecture/

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Anondson » November 20th, 2014, 7:10 pm

NICE! I really wouldn't mind that for the Ritz block.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby xandrex » November 21st, 2014, 9:46 am

Nathan wrote:We're definitely already falling behind on this North thing... JEALOUS!

http://www.dezeen.com/2014/11/20/chengd ... hitecture/
I like that a huge chunk of it is marked for "CEO residential". That's really going to be one space!?

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 21st, 2014, 9:53 am

FISHMANPET wrote:
I was thinking that the UP would want to be distinct from the Rust Belt identiy of LP and Indiana/Ohio etc, but now that I think about it more, most of the Midwest isn't Rust Belt. The Midwest/North line wouldn't really be at all related to the difference between agriculture states and industrial states.
Yeah, the Rust Belt is sort of everywhere, but if anything I'd say that the Rust Belt aspect of the Midwest is more Northern in nature, as most of the true Rust Belt cities lie in the Northern tier of the Midwest region. Or, you could say there's three sub-regions within the Midwest:

The North (i.e. Dakotas, MN, WI, and the UPoMI)
The Rust Belt (defined mostly by the area between cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, I.e I-80/90/94 corridor)
The Midwest (defined mostly by wide open spaces and milder temps/hot summers: "Missoura", KS, OK, IA, southern 3/4 of IN/OH/IL, etc.)


The defining features of the Rust Belt are: on a Great Lake -- for the most part -- and colder air/Northern latitudes (i.e. Great Lakes + North = Rust Belt).

Some cities like Duluth or St. Louis might overlap between regions.
Last edited by min-chi-cbus on November 21st, 2014, 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 21st, 2014, 9:57 am

Nathan wrote:We're definitely already falling behind on this North thing... JEALOUS!

http://www.dezeen.com/2014/11/20/chengd ... hitecture/
OMG that's sick! That's exactly the kind of iconic tower I wanted for Minneapolis: a beautiful icicle!

mattaudio
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mattaudio » November 21st, 2014, 10:00 am

Actually the defining features of the rust belt are concentrations of steelmaking and other heavy industry: Metal = rust.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » November 21st, 2014, 10:05 am

mattaudio wrote:Actually the defining features of the rust belt are concentrations of steelmaking and other heavy industry: Metal = rust.
That's the cultural feature. I was trying to give it a geographical definition. The Rust Belt was originally dubbed the Steel Belt for the very reasons you referenced, but once it began to decline it became the Rust Belt (what happens to steel when it declines).

I've heard similar colloquialisms for the North (Frost Belt/Frostbite Belt) and the South/SW (Sun Belt/Sunburn Belt and Sand Belt/Dust Belt).

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Avian » November 21st, 2014, 2:47 pm

Just Google images for "US regions." There is quite the variety of definitions. If you think "Midwest" is too broad, consider that some maps lump Bismarck ND and San Diego in the same "West" region.

The problem with so many of these definitions is that they are based on the arbitrary state lines and ignore cultural/geographical differences within states. In our culture the tendency is to simplify and stereotype so we end up with 4 or 5 regions when the US is really made up of at 10-12 distinct regions. But those distinctions are too complicated for most people who'd rather pay attention to the size of a Kardashian ass. ;)

I respond to the NOAA map below as better representing the US environment even though it is still based on state lines. But it doesn't match up with popular perceptions of culture, so perhaps a better map would loosen the boundaries and blend this map with the more traditional definitions of regions. The "East North Central" region is probably closest to what I'd call "The North."

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