Twin Cities' National and Global Image

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mplsjaromir
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mplsjaromir » March 5th, 2015, 9:39 am

The book from which that map comes from makes a compelling case. It has less to do with aesthetics, language and self identification and more to do with how each area chooses to organize it society. The maps predict where certain beliefs are to be widely held. For example Yankeedom rejects the death penalty and has always spawned anti-war sentiment. While the Deep South sees a large number of 'honor killings' i.e. murders that result from disputes. Greater Appalachia has had unwavering support every single war the U.S. has ever undertaken. That map can predict how open a certain area can be to most any policy measure down to the county level. That is not to say that individuals in certain areas may have strongly opposing views.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby WHS » March 5th, 2015, 9:45 am

Every time I'm in the Texas Panhandle I do tend to be amazed at its cultural similarities to Philly.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby WHS » March 5th, 2015, 9:47 am

mplsjaromir wrote:The book from which that map comes from makes a compelling case. It has less to do with aesthetics, language and self identification and more to do with how each area chooses to organize it society. The maps predict where certain beliefs are to be widely held. For example Yankeedom rejects the death penalty and has always spawned anti-war sentiment. While the Deep South sees a large number of 'honor killings' i.e. murders that result from disputes. Greater Appalachia has had unwavering support every single war the U.S. has ever undertaken. That map can predict how open a certain area can be to most any policy measure down to the county level. That is not to say that individuals in certain areas may have strongly opposing views.
Except, in terms of policy preferences, isn't the city-suburban-rural divide a lot more informative than any regional divide? Anoka County votes like my redneck hometown in North Carolina while Minneapolis votes like San Francisco, etc.

acs
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby acs » March 5th, 2015, 9:53 am

EOst wrote:MSP has actually gained more jobs in its core than Seattle (percentage-wise), and has done a better job of keeping job growth inside the core.
If you look at the full report, you'll see that was mostly due to the pre-recession gains, which was atypical nationally since Minneapolis was still flat population wise. Since the recession, when Minneapolis' population has been growing we have lost jobs in the urban core faster than in the suburbs. Looking through the list, we're one of the few cities bucking that national trend.

Minneapolis '02-'07 Core job growth '02-'07 Suburban growth '07 to '11 core growth '07 to '11 suburban growth
1.9% .6% -.8% -.5%
Seattle '02-'07 Core job growth '02-'07 Suburban growth '07 to '11 core growth '07 to '11 suburban growth
1.0% 1.9% .1% .2%

So do we know something everyone else doesn't or are we just back asswards as usual?

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mplsjaromir » March 5th, 2015, 10:22 am

Hard to compare how your NC county votes in comparison Anoka County since the only common election decision would be for U.S. President and Vice President. Obama only lost Anoka County by 3% in 2012 and actually approved his electoral performance from 2008. Jim Graves gave very close to winning the 6th in 2012. I would bet that the most conservative county surrounding Charlotte or Raleigh would be more conservative than Anoka. Anoka County is not clamoring for the death penalty, or stand your ground, or other 'eye for eye' style policy that is pretty much ubiquitous in the south.

Rural Yankeedom was still far more likely, for example to vote for Barack Obama. To me rural Wisconsin to me feels much different than say rural Mississippi. The propensity of liberal arts colleges is a good indicator of where you are in this country.

Policy preferences tend to be more of state level thing, so you get some interesting dynamics in states that have more than one "nation".

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Didier » March 5th, 2015, 10:37 am

Since it sounds like some are going purely off the map, here's how it describes Yankeedom.
YANKEEDOM. Founded on the shores of Massachusetts Bay by radical Calvinists as a new Zion, Yankeedom has, since the outset, put great emphasis on perfecting earthly civilization through social engineering, denial of self for the common good, and assimilation of outsiders. It has prized education, intellectual achievement, communal empowerment, and broad citizen participation in politics and government, the latter seen as the public’s shield against the machinations of grasping aristocrats and other would-be tyrants. Since the early Puritans, it has been more comfortable with government regulation and public-sector social projects than many of the other nations, who regard the Yankee utopian streak with trepidation. - See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fa ... RkqYM.dpuf

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby EOst » March 5th, 2015, 10:48 am

acs wrote:So do we know something everyone else doesn't or are we just back asswards as usual?
Mostly what you're showing is the danger of looking at small subsets of the data; if we were able to break it down further (for example, to exclude 08-10, the heart of the financial crisis, which Seattle was able to ride out better than most) you'd probably find that the two growth rates look pretty similar overall.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby David Greene » March 5th, 2015, 10:24 pm

WHS wrote:And it's not like Minnesota doesn't have an unusually well-known and basically accurate cultural identity -- hockey, Scandinavians
No, no, no, no and no.

We are much more German than Scandinavian. So no, that isn't an accurate cultural identity at all. It's *part* of our identity but it isn't even the largest part.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Snelbian » March 5th, 2015, 10:43 pm

David Greene wrote:
WHS wrote:And it's not like Minnesota doesn't have an unusually well-known and basically accurate cultural identity -- hockey, Scandinavians
No, no, no, no and no.

We are much more German than Scandinavian. So no, that isn't an accurate cultural identity at all. It's *part* of our identity but it isn't even the largest part.
And it's a part that a large chunk of us don't appreciate getting tarred (lutefisked?) with all the time. Screw Garrison Keilor.

acs
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby acs » March 5th, 2015, 11:04 pm

So? German-American is the largest self-reported ancestry throughout the entire county. It's not unique. No ancestry isn't going to command a majority in an area as large as a state. What is unique is that we have a much higher percentage of our population claiming Scandinavian ancestry in our state, 32.1% of us versus a national average of 3.8%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_American

Also, I say we embrace and support our Hockey identity. The Texans are famous for producing the best football players at all levels up to the NFL and having the highest attended state sports tournament. And yet what is #2? The MN boy's high school hockey tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDCUEW1iZUs

When you've grown up playing pond hockey with kids now hoisting the Stanley cup, the "state of hockey" moniker is apt.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby WHS » March 6th, 2015, 7:11 am

David Greene wrote:
WHS wrote:And it's not like Minnesota doesn't have an unusually well-known and basically accurate cultural identity -- hockey, Scandinavians
No, no, no, no and no.

We are much more German than Scandinavian. So no, that isn't an accurate cultural identity at all. It's *part* of our identity but it isn't even the largest part.
So what you're saying here is that we're actually more like the rest of the Midwest than even Midwest Loyalists like myself had previously believed. ;)

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby talindsay » March 6th, 2015, 9:32 am

David Greene wrote:
WHS wrote:And it's not like Minnesota doesn't have an unusually well-known and basically accurate cultural identity -- hockey, Scandinavians
No, no, no, no and no.

We are much more German than Scandinavian. So no, that isn't an accurate cultural identity at all. It's *part* of our identity but it isn't even the largest part.
Every part of the Midwest has a lot of Germans, Minnesota not excepted. But Minnesota's Scandinavian connection is much more prominent than other parts of the Midwest. Our "Germanness" doesn't rise from the noise, and is more subdued than, say, Wisconsin's German heritage. Our Scandinavian heritage does rise from the noise, is unique, and identifies Minnesota. And no, I don't have a shred of Scandinavian heritage.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby xandrex » March 6th, 2015, 9:38 am

David Greene wrote:
WHS wrote:And it's not like Minnesota doesn't have an unusually well-known and basically accurate cultural identity -- hockey, Scandinavians
No, no, no, no and no.

We are much more German than Scandinavian. So no, that isn't an accurate cultural identity at all. It's *part* of our identity but it isn't even the largest part.
Every time MPR talks about MN's Scandinavian heritage or it comes up in an article, there's always got to be the guy who says, "But actually we're all German!" ;)

Much of the US has German heritage. What the callers and commenters never seem to accept is that we're known for our Scandinavian heritage because pretty much no other state can claim it.

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Didier
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Didier » March 6th, 2015, 9:46 am

Based on Wikipedia, North Dakota actually has a higher population of Scandinavian ancestry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_American

:ugeek:

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Unity77 » March 6th, 2015, 9:48 am

Snelbian wrote:
Unity77 wrote: Again, I didn't state anything about Target.
Fine. Different, related question more specifically to do with what you said.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ott-walker
The disaster Dayton's GOP rivals predicted never happened. Two years after the tax hike, Minnesota's economy is booming. The state added 172,000 jobs during Dayton's first four years in office. Its 3.6 percent unemployment rate is among the lowest in the country (Wisconsin's is 5.2 percent), and the Twin Cities have the lowest unemployment rate of any major metropolitan area. Under Dayton, Minnesota has consistently been in the top tier of states for GDP growth. Median incomes are $8,000 higher than the national average. In 2014, Minnesota led the nation in economic confidence, according to Gallup.
Here's my question. Are the problems you're predicting and observing based on any actual data?
I'm not sure why you took the left - right, MN - WI route, but I will tell you my opinion is not based on politics.

I'm a recruiter within the Twin Cities tech sector and I've recruited for both agency as well as in-house. Twin Cities companies are facing a number of issues when it comes to attracting and keeping talent. It's become such an issue that companies like The Nerdery have had to start their own programs in hopes of getting people trained and up to speed on technology. They have partnered with other companies throughout the Twin Cities and will try to filter the newly trained candidates to The Nerdery as well as their partners. Target has had to set up tech shop elsewhere (Cailifornia) because it can’t find the talent here. Other issues I see include, little to no work from home opportunities, lack of skilled minorities, compensation, cultural environments (or lack thereof), and people wanting to move out to the new hot spots – Denver, Salt Lake City, etc..
Nathan wrote:
Unity77 wrote:Perhaps Minneapolis officials and locals should start worrying more about keeping corporations and talent here than if whether or not we should be considered something other than Midwestern. There are companies like Amazon recruiting local talent left and right and locals are worried about what we should be referred to as. Ten years from now most of our corporate headquarters, jobs, and talent will be gone and these idiots will be wondering what happened.
being it's not officials but private people who are pushing this I don't really see where your argument has warrant.
A lot of people are pushing this - business owners, university officials, board members from local organizations and yes, local and state officials.
Last edited by Unity77 on March 6th, 2015, 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

grant1simons2
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby grant1simons2 » March 6th, 2015, 9:51 am

Leif Ericson, Swedish institute, the Vikings, Sons of Norway, Lutefisk, etc.

We're pretty Scandinavian don'cha know? I'm a good percentage Scandinavian myself. My grandpas side of the family has gone back to parts of Denmark and Sweden. And my great grandpa came here from Norway. Fishing, ice fishing, Nordic skiing and snow shoeing is all part of the Scandinavian lifestyle in the winter. Sound familiar? I've embraced this movement because I think it'll help bring Minnesota back to when it was so unique from a lot of other states.

I also think this not only has to do with the ancestral argument, but our own history: in flour mills, logging, fur trading at Fort Snelling, fishing export, and more.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby acs » March 6th, 2015, 10:03 am

Unity77 wrote:
Snelbian wrote:
Unity77 wrote: Again, I didn't state anything about Target.
Fine. Different, related question more specifically to do with what you said.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... ott-walker
The disaster Dayton's GOP rivals predicted never happened. Two years after the tax hike, Minnesota's economy is booming. The state added 172,000 jobs during Dayton's first four years in office. Its 3.6 percent unemployment rate is among the lowest in the country (Wisconsin's is 5.2 percent), and the Twin Cities have the lowest unemployment rate of any major metropolitan area. Under Dayton, Minnesota has consistently been in the top tier of states for GDP growth. Median incomes are $8,000 higher than the national average. In 2014, Minnesota led the nation in economic confidence, according to Gallup.
Here's my question. Are the problems you're predicting and observing based on any actual data?
I'm not sure why you took the left - right, MN - WI route, but I will tell you my opinion is not based on politics.

I'm a recruiter within the Twin Cities tech sector and I've recruited for both agency as well as in-house. Twin Cities companies are facing a number of issues when it comes to attracting and keeping talent. It's become such an issue that companies like The Nerdery have had to start their own programs in hopes of getting people trained and up to speed on technology. They have partnered with other companies throughout the Twin Cities and will try to filter the newly trained candidates to The Nerdery as well as their partners. Target has had to set up tech shop elsewhere (Cailifornia) because it can’t find the talent here. Other issues I see include, little to no work from home opportunities, lack of skilled minorities, compensation, cultural environments (or lack thereof), and people wanting to move out to the new hot spots – Denver, Salt Lake City, etc..
Nathan wrote:
Unity77 wrote:Perhaps Minneapolis officials and locals should start worrying more about keeping corporations and talent here than if whether or not we should be considered something other than Midwestern. There are companies like Amazon recruiting local talent left and right and locals are worried about what we should be referred to as. Ten years from now most of our corporate headquarters, jobs, and talent will be gone and these idiots will be wondering what happened.
being it's not officials but private people who are pushing this I don't really see where your argument has warrant.
A lot of people are pushing this - business owners, university officials, board members from local organizations and yes, local and state officials.
This. Minnesota is a brain drain state now. It's sad but once it starts down that path it's hard to come back.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby FISHMANPET » March 6th, 2015, 10:07 am

That doesn't sound like brain drain at all, it sounds like we're not training the right workers in the first place.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby MNdible » March 6th, 2015, 10:11 am

Having recently spent some time in Denver, I'm pretty certain that if we're losing talent to them, it's because of the mountains and a somewhat more pleasant climate, not because the city is better in any meaningful way. Because it's not.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby xandrex » March 6th, 2015, 10:28 am

Unity77 wrote:I'm a recruiter within the Twin Cities tech sector and I've recruited for both agency as well as in-house. Twin Cities companies are facing a number of issues when it comes to attracting and keeping talent ... Target has had to set up tech shop elsewhere (Cailifornia) because it can’t find the talent here.
Unity77 wrote:There are companies like Amazon recruiting local talent left and right and locals are worried about what we should be referred to as.
These two statements do not seem congruous. Which is it?

And beyond that, I'm curious what the remedy is. We're never going to change the weather (well, at least at a micro level), so what's the solution that government officials should be focused on? We're already a high-wage, pretty high QOL, and lack the expenses of the coasts (all of this, of course, why the Atlantic had the whole "Miracle in Minneapolis" thing). Most of the issues you raise aren't exactly anything that the City of Minneapolis or Met Council or State of Minnesota can wave their wand and change.


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