Twin Cities' National and Global Image

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Wedgeguy
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Wedgeguy » December 16th, 2015, 12:22 pm

Nathan wrote:11th best food city according to another thingy

https://www.zagat.com/b/the-top-17-food ... m=social#7
Very interesting to see who we beat out of the 17. What really surprised me was the top two I as would not have expected them on this list at all.

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Sacrelicio » December 16th, 2015, 12:22 pm

MNdible wrote:All is for the worst in this worst of all possible worlds.
It was the worst of times, it was the worst of times.

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Sacrelicio » December 16th, 2015, 12:29 pm

Wedgeguy wrote:
Nathan wrote:11th best food city according to another thingy

https://www.zagat.com/b/the-top-17-food ... m=social#7
Very interesting to see who we beat out of the 17. What really surprised me was the top two I as would not have expected them on this list at all.
Not sure these are really "ranked" but rather a collection of 17 cities that they wanted to showcase as having a good 2015.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby twincitizen » January 10th, 2016, 7:10 pm

NYTimes takes a look at the northside http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/11/us/mi ... -well&_r=0

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mulad » January 11th, 2016, 8:57 am

MinnPost had an article on Friday about filmmaking in the state. Minnesota was apparently the first place to have financial incentives for creating movies, TV shows, and commercials with Snowbate back in 1997, but many productions have gone elsewhere due to a lack of suitable infrastructure here, plus better financial offers in other places. There's some expectation that the number of Minnesota-based movies will increase with the creation of a film studio facility up on the Iron Range in Chisholm (a converted former ice rink).

https://www.minnpost.com/twin-cities-bu ... wood-money

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 12th, 2016, 8:58 pm

twincitizen wrote:NYTimes takes a look at the northside http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/11/us/mi ... -well&_r=0
This article kinda pisses me off. They act like this doesn't happen in every other major US metropolitan area in the country, including their own NYC. They're holding MSP to a different standard, presumably because of the "Minnesota Miracle" article they wrote. The only real eye-popping info in the article is the stark contrast in quality of living between the black and non-black residents of the city/metro, which is definitely something to address, but I think there are some unique circumstances that explain a lot of the data. The black population in the metro area is 75% new within the past 20-30 years, and many of the folks who have arrived since then come from Africa or the poorest inner-city nabes in other Midwestern cities like Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Gary, etc. In how many other US cities does such a phenomenon occur, and to such a high degree (percentage)? I think that drives most of the disparity, and not something systemic about the metro or city.

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Tiller
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Tiller » January 12th, 2016, 10:10 pm

Not only from Africa, but from some of the poorest areas of Africa, ie Liberia and Somalia. We take in the poorest of the poor, both domestically and abroad. Longitudinal data would be more helpful in figuring out how bad things are and how to improve ourselves. That said, I'm not sure really what I think about the article.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby trigonalmayhem » January 12th, 2016, 10:15 pm

This is exactly the kind of knee jerk reaction to criticism that slows or prevents real change and improvement around here. Not to single you out or anything but I see a lot of people react poorly to any criticism of the twin cities or Minnesota in general or try to explain away problems or significantly downplay them. It is not helpful and persists the status quo.

Also somewhat to your point, recent immigrants have their own safety net of programs that American born people of color don't have access to. And just because the problem isn't unique to Minneapolis doesn't forgive the fact that it's one of the worst offenders. You don't fix a problem by pretending it's less of a problem, you own up to the fact that it sucks and start working to fix it.

(Edit: this was intended as a reply to minchibus)

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby mplsjaromir » January 13th, 2016, 8:12 am

It perfectly good point to bring up. Not being proficient in English greatly diminishes one's earning ability, that is not something that is even controversial. It also helps to explain why standardized test scores have such a wide delta in relation to white almost elusively English as a first language speakers.

The demographics of a certain group should considered when considering action to be taken to ameliorate their negative conditions.

What safety net are you referring to that recent immigrants have access to that others do not? Are you referring to informal community networks, or specific government foundation programs?

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 13th, 2016, 10:48 am

trigonalmayhem wrote:This is exactly the kind of knee jerk reaction to criticism that slows or prevents real change and improvement around here. Not to single you out or anything but I see a lot of people react poorly to any criticism of the twin cities or Minnesota in general or try to explain away problems or significantly downplay them. It is not helpful and persists the status quo.

Also somewhat to your point, recent immigrants have their own safety net of programs that American born people of color don't have access to. And just because the problem isn't unique to Minneapolis doesn't forgive the fact that it's one of the worst offenders. You don't fix a problem by pretending it's less of a problem, you own up to the fact that it sucks and start working to fix it.

(Edit: this was intended as a reply to minchibus)
I'm not suggesting there isn't a problem, but they highlighted Minneapolis here like it's a particularly bad example of socioeconomic divide. And it is, but for reasons that I don't think are necessarily (but could be) systemic to the nature of the city/metro area. In other words, I'm not sure that any inaction on the city's part caused the divide to be what it is here relative to other US cities, which is sort of the gist I'm getting from the article. I'm not pissed that they highlighted a real and growing problem, but that they used Minneapolis as the scapegoat city for which to showcase the problem (seemingly). And I'm probably biased, because I grew up there and like it more than other places.

I think there are other cities where underlying racism or fear of change prohibits growth in underserved communities -- much moreso than it occurs in Minneapolis, for example.

trigonalmayhem

Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby trigonalmayhem » January 13th, 2016, 11:06 am

Statistics say Minneapolis is one of the worst offenders. Why not use one of the worst as your subject for a story? You're grasping at straws to try to downplay the fact that things are objectively awful here for people of color on average.

Do you think people like Barb Johnson are really doing their best to address the problem? Making excuses does nothing other than help you sleep better at night knowing it's somehow not your fault. 'Oh there's good valid reasons for this and we're just good people trying our best.' Except we're not.

I'm sure the city alone probably can't fix the problem but to pretend they're even giving it more than lip service is laughable. We're talking about the city government that wanted to spend public money fortifying a police station like some kind of forward operating base in occupied territories.

And if you think there isn't plenty of racism at work just hop in the comments section of most Star Tribune stories sometime.

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Tiller
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Tiller » January 13th, 2016, 11:08 am

I'd say the article can be bad in that it can be used to argue that left-wing/liberal/progressive/whatever policies are a cause of the socioeconomic divide we face here, detracting from other things we should be focusing on. (generally speaking)

trigonalmayhem

Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby trigonalmayhem » January 13th, 2016, 11:14 am

They're probably not the cause, but they're also obviously not the solution either. Maybe it should be taken as a wake up call that the status quo is unacceptable in regards to these issues. Just because we get some things right doesn't mean we get to rest on our laurels and call it a day. There's plenty more that needs fixing and isn't working right noww.

Fear of damaging civic pride is no reason to allow injustice to continue.

acs
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby acs » January 13th, 2016, 11:22 am

I can think of a few solidly Liberal and progressive policies that have dis proportionally harmed minorities in the long run, so don't act like what the DFL says is always correct now and forever. That has also played out in other large solid blue cities like Milwaukee and Chiraq.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby grant1simons2 » January 13th, 2016, 11:27 am

Both parties are very accountable. Highways cutting through these neighborhoods cutting then off were supported by dems and the GOP. Sprawl was supported by both dems and GOP. Etc.

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Tiller
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Tiller » January 13th, 2016, 12:05 pm

I agree, which is why I said "generally speaking".

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Sacrelicio » January 13th, 2016, 2:34 pm

trigonalmayhem wrote:They're probably not the cause, but they're also obviously not the solution either. Maybe it should be taken as a wake up call that the status quo is unacceptable in regards to these issues. Just because we get some things right doesn't mean we get to rest on our laurels and call it a day. There's plenty more that needs fixing and isn't working right noww.

Fear of damaging civic pride is no reason to allow injustice to continue.
No one is resting on their laurels. Anyone with any familiarity with social issues is well aware that this is a problem and that we must do whatever we can to fix it. But, it's also important to understand one of the reasons why the black/white divide is particularly pronounced here. We don't have a sizable, established black or Hispanic middle class, and we don't have widespread white poverty. If that's the starting point, then you add a lot of new black residents who are coming from poverty, then the problem will be more pronounced. Understanding the issue makes finding solutions easier. I don't think we're last in the nation in this area because we're particularly racist or don't have much opportunity to move up. West Virginia was rated second "best" but I doubt that's because black people or Hispanic people are doing particularly well there. Connecticut, New York, and Massachusetts are ranked pretty low but are also the three worst states as far as overall income inequality.

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Sacrelicio
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby Sacrelicio » January 13th, 2016, 2:43 pm

Tiller wrote:I'd say the article can be bad in that it can be used to argue that left-wing/liberal/progressive/whatever policies are a cause of the socioeconomic divide we face here, detracting from other things we should be focusing on. (generally speaking)
Yes, general lib-bashing and city bashing. Feeding the suburban and rural right wing hate.

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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 13th, 2016, 9:07 pm

Sacrelicio wrote:
trigonalmayhem wrote:They're probably not the cause, but they're also obviously not the solution either. Maybe it should be taken as a wake up call that the status quo is unacceptable in regards to these issues. Just because we get some things right doesn't mean we get to rest on our laurels and call it a day. There's plenty more that needs fixing and isn't working right noww.

Fear of damaging civic pride is no reason to allow injustice to continue.
No one is resting on their laurels. Anyone with any familiarity with social issues is well aware that this is a problem and that we must do whatever we can to fix it. But, it's also important to understand one of the reasons why the black/white divide is particularly pronounced here. We don't have a sizable, established black or Hispanic middle class, and we don't have widespread white poverty. If that's the starting point, then you add a lot of new black residents who are coming from poverty, then the problem will be more pronounced. Understanding the issue makes finding solutions easier. I don't think we're last in the nation in this area because we're particularly racist or don't have much opportunity to move up. West Virginia was rated second "best" but I doubt that's because black people or Hispanic people are doing particularly well there. Connecticut, New York, and Massachusetts are ranked pretty low but are also the three worst states as far as overall income inequality.
This is what I was trying to say.
Last edited by min-chi-cbus on January 13th, 2016, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

min-chi-cbus
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Re: Twin Cities' National and Global Image

Postby min-chi-cbus » January 13th, 2016, 9:20 pm

trigonalmayhem wrote:Statistics say Minneapolis is one of the worst offenders. Why not use one of the worst as your subject for a story? You're grasping at straws to try to downplay the fact that things are objectively awful here for people of color on average.

Do you think people like Barb Johnson are really doing their best to address the problem? Making excuses does nothing other than help you sleep better at night knowing it's somehow not your fault. 'Oh there's good valid reasons for this and we're just good people trying our best.' Except we're not.

I'm sure the city alone probably can't fix the problem but to pretend they're even giving it more than lip service is laughable. We're talking about the city government that wanted to spend public money fortifying a police station like some kind of forward operating base in occupied territories.

And if you think there isn't plenty of racism at work just hop in the comments section of most Star Tribune stories sometime.
The data doesn't explain everything, you have to look beyond just the numbers to determine drivers and come up with solutions. Anybody can point to the worst results in a vacuum and go "yep, they must be the worst". I'm offering a reason why the Twin Cities may not be as bad as the NY Times is making us out to be, and you're going after my nuts! Clearly you agree with the numbers and think the Twin Cities is the worst place to be black.


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