Grocery Stores

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TommyT
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby TommyT » August 14th, 2014, 1:11 pm

Living downtown, I frequently fill up a foldable cart with groceries and other goods via skyway. Usually supplemented with a car trip to a bigger box store every month or so for bigger bulk stuff. I live in a 650sqft 1-bedroom apartment with no additional freezer space or anything like that.

The Thrasher development is right near my workplace and will likely be a go-to for on-the-way-home grabs.

Just my habits as a downtown worker & resident, if it makes any difference.
i can't WAIT to get rid of my car and move downtown!!!

l12
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby l12 » August 15th, 2014, 8:15 am

Living downtown, I frequently fill up a foldable cart with groceries and other goods via skyway. Usually supplemented with a car trip to a bigger box store every month or so for bigger bulk stuff. I live in a 650sqft 1-bedroom apartment with no additional freezer space or anything like that.
This is a good point to remember, a long distance grocery trip is not so bad if you use a little prehistoric sense and go properly prepared. Plenty of New York City residents do not have a great grocery all that close, and you see all the old ladies with those folding black carts carrying lots of groceries home with relative ease. Where can you buy one around here?

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TommyT
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby TommyT » August 15th, 2014, 8:24 am

Where can you buy one around here?
Target, Walmart, Costco... I believe I've seen them at all three.

Snelbian
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Snelbian » August 15th, 2014, 8:27 am

I know Ikea sells them.

I have the luxury of being a stay-at-home parent with a small house and a minor physical disability. I say luxury because it means walking is more tempting than driving 95% of the time because it's less painful, meaning that I HAVE to take the time to walk for groceries and buy only what I can carry and fit in a fridge and some hanging shelves. So a weekly trip to Rainbow, one to Mississippi Market, sometimes one to Target and Cub, and maybe twice a week to Whole Foods. On foot. Pushing a double stroller. Or if one kid is with someone else, on a bike. I don't see it as a chore detracting from time I can spend on other things - obtaining food is the most important thing I can be doing, so it's ALWAYS the #1 priority for my time. And having to do it under my own power means I don't need to schedule some other time to exercise or take my kids for an aimless walk. Since I can't just do the shopping once every two weeks, I don't need to worry about produce going bad, so spoilage doesn't impede a better diet. It's working out pretty well. But only because I've decided to approach not starving as a basic need rather than a tiring chore.

xandrex
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby xandrex » August 21st, 2014, 12:47 am

Priviledged, maybe, but not as much as you make it sound I'd say. We live on the southside where nearly every household has at least one car. Even if we didn't have one, we could rent a car or use car sharing, or borrow a car from a friend/neighbor. Costco membership is $45/year I think. Chest freezer was a $200 initial investment, and 5 linear feet of basement shelving took me a couple hours to build. An average Costco run takes maybe 90 minutes at the most, but it takes another 60+ minutes once we get home to "butcher" the meat into reasonable portions and get all of the stuff into storage. And $700 per run is rather unusual. I'd say the average run is $200-400. But food costs money, and it's what we put into our bodies so we buy the best we can find. We cook all but maybe one or two meals a week at home, from scratch. It's actually an excellent way to save massive amounts of money while actually eating healthier compared to going out to eat frequently.
Just as clarification, I wasn't calling what you do extravagant in any way.

But it is privileged. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you have the benefits of geography, space, and resources (really they all boil down to resources, but that's getting too nitty gritty). Most families in South Minneapolis will indeed have at least one car. But that's a bad comparison. After all, people tend to live amongst those who are at least generally within the same economic strata. I'm sure home ownership is high on Mount Curve or in Kenwood, but that doesn't mean we should use these places as the single example of home ownership.

I share much of the privilege you do. I live in a neighborhood (western Marcy-Holmes) where I have easy access to grocery stores, I own a car for bigger shopping trips, and I have time to visit the grocery to buy food I can prepare myself. I live in an apartment, so a chest freezer is sort of out of the question, and I definitely don't have enough money to make big purchases at wholesale/bulk stores. Still, I'm privileged.

But it's not hard to find people who don't have that privilege: There are plenty of single moms (and dads) living in food deserts like the Northside who are working multiple jobs to make end's meet. They may not have a car. They're buying essentials at the gas station (you see a lot of this at the Holiday over by Target Field) for a heavy markup price. They're just not going to have time to make multiple walks to the grocery store and then prepare fresh food. I'm sure many can't even make the initial investment in a Costco membership, and even so, they're probably in a space too small to store bulk goods and can't buy a freezer to store it.

That's the lack of privilege I'm talking about. The problem is that most of the people on this message board are middle-class-raised, college-educated professionals (or on that track) and really haven't experienced that lifestyle. Privilege is so often invisible to those who benefit from it that it appears not to exist.

/social justice rant. Sorry for the takeover.

Minneapolisite

Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Minneapolisite » August 21st, 2014, 7:25 am

There is a nice bodega on Harmon, but pretty much has the same things you can find a block away at Lunds for cheaper. They do sell Sebastian Joes and lotto tickets though.

mattaudio
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby mattaudio » August 21st, 2014, 8:25 am

Lotto tickets are part of a nutritious, balanced diet.

Silophant
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Silophant » August 21st, 2014, 1:11 pm

There is a nice bodega on Harmon, but pretty much has the same things you can find a block away at Lunds for cheaper. They do sell Sebastian Joes and lotto tickets though.
And Heggie's pizza!
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Lancestar2

Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Lancestar2 » September 10th, 2014, 2:37 pm

Does anybody have any more information relating to Hy-Vee's expansion into the twin cities? Currently I believe the we are looking at stores in New Hope, Maple Grove, Lakeville, Oakdale, Eagan, and Shakopee. Granted in Shakopee they don't have the rights to the property yet, but they seem interested enough to attempt to work out a deal.

Any rumors or other potential places they may seem interested in? Also does anybody else know more information about Hy-vee's existing metro markets and have a better idea of what we could expect to see? About how many locations do you think the market can hold? With the bigger store layouts will they need to be spaced farther apart than existing grocers such as Cub? Just wonder if anybody has better insights into the grocery store market. Also any predictions as to what the future grocery market will look like and, do you think that Cub will be able to survive in say 10 to 15 years? Thoughts?

Wedgeguy
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Wedgeguy » September 10th, 2014, 6:42 pm

HyVee is based out of Des Moines and has several stores across southern Minnesota. I believe that Rochester and Mankato have at least 2 stores at opposite ends of their cities. HyVee will most likely stay in the burbs where they have a large big box layout similar to Cubs. Yes, It will put much more pressure on Super Value to get their debt and costs under control.

For what it is worth, HyVee is non union so that might make for some picketing by the union once they try and open stores.

Lancestar2

Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Lancestar2 » September 13th, 2014, 3:22 pm

HyVee is based out of Des Moines and has several stores across southern Minnesota. I believe that Rochester and Mankato have at least 2 stores at opposite ends of their cities. HyVee will most likely stay in the burbs where they have a large big box layout similar to Cubs. Yes, It will put much more pressure on Super Value to get their debt and costs under control.

For what it is worth, HyVee is non union so that might make for some picketing by the union once they try and open stores.
In what ways do you envision Cub having to change to gain sound footing again? You mentioned Cub has debt? Is there a great deal of debt, and how will that play a part in Cub's future? I know Supervalu is more focused on wholesale then retail could that mean Cub Foods may have the same fate as Rainbow when there parent company saw difficult waters ahead?

EDIT:
http://www.twincities.com/business/ci_2 ... oods-close


...and then there were 4 Rainbow Foods... The West St. Paul location has a interested party looking to redevelop? Could that be Hy-Vee? Not sure who else would be so aggressive in wanting to build new stores that is not already in that retail community.

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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Wedgeguy » September 15th, 2014, 12:13 pm

I do not see Cub having to change their square footage as much as they will have to deal with a company that will require them to have better customer service, better pricing, and better sale products in their fliers; which at this point I've always been disappointed in compared to Rainbows ads. Another issue that will be a challenge will be that HyVee is non union at most of their stores if not all.

Back in the 90's Supervalu bought up Albertson which was a large grocery chain in the western states for what they thought would be larger size makes for better deals for product. All it meant for them was larger headaches as some of the Albertson chains were in trouble and it only got worse. They ended up selling parts of it of to repay some of their debt. But Supervalu still has a fairly large outstanding debt load to asset ratio.

I see HyVee putting more pressure on the Super pair, Walmart and Target with their prices and customer service. Their perishables and meats are always well stocked compared to the Supers. It would be a paper for a marketing graduate student as to what will happen in the next 2-3 years in the grocery business here in the Twin Cities. We will see if there is a further shake out in the competition.

xandrex
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby xandrex » September 15th, 2014, 3:24 pm

I'm not a grocery store analyst, but I'd guess that it's the middle-of-the-road type places like Cub that actually will get hit hard first. Wal-Mart and Target aren't all-in with grocery and I think they attract a different type of shopper than those who shop at Cub. I know I essentially choose between three stores: I either go to Target (the Quarry, particularly, but I shop at Roseville on occasion) or Lunds/Whole Foods. Cub and Rainbow scarcely cross my mind, especially since I've never found their prices to be that great. They're easy pickings, especially when the model is the same.

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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby MNdible » September 15th, 2014, 3:47 pm

Although our household does pretty well, I'd never consider shopping at Lund's/Byerly's/WholeFoods on a regular basis (I do occasionally end up there for a specialty item or because it happens to be close by). The price difference is just too much, and I don't need to shop in a grocery store with mood lighting.

And although we do semi-regularly shop at Target (only because we find ourselves there already for something else), I've never been impressed with either their selection or price.

I greatly prefer shopping a Cub or ex-Rainbow, and I find that if you pay attention to what's on sale, you can consistently and often significantly save money over shopping at Target (which rarely has much on sale).

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby FISHMANPET » September 15th, 2014, 4:54 pm

I gotta say, I much prefer Target's Deli meat to Rainbow or Cub. I wasn't too scientific about it, but I came to the conclusion that with my Target Red Card that gets me 5% off at Target, Target came out pretty equal to shopping at Rainbow (I've always been a Rainbow guy and I have no idea why). Most of my staples I try and get at Aldi because they're much cheaper there too.

xandrex
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby xandrex » September 16th, 2014, 8:43 am

Although our household does pretty well, I'd never consider shopping at Lund's/Byerly's/WholeFoods on a regular basis (I do occasionally end up there for a specialty item or because it happens to be close by). The price difference is just too much, and I don't need to shop in a grocery store with mood lighting.

And although we do semi-regularly shop at Target (only because we find ourselves there already for something else), I've never been impressed with either their selection or price.

I greatly prefer shopping a Cub or ex-Rainbow, and I find that if you pay attention to what's on sale, you can consistently and often significantly save money over shopping at Target (which rarely has much on sale).
Lunds/Whole Foods really only win with produce. I can't speak to all Cub/Rainbows, but I've always found produce lackluster yet still expensive. I haven't had that issue when shopping at the more "high end" places. Of course, if you're shopping packaged food at all, then just about anywhere that has a sale will be fine (Lunds and Whole Foods certainly won't be giving you a discount in this regard and quality is no better).

I don't know what Target you shop at, but they've been pushing hard into grocery for quite a while. In the past, I've worked on and off for the good ol' Bullseye and distinctly remember how much stuff in grocery went on sale (as someone who had to pull down all the sale signs). If you like Market Pantry, Archer Farms, or Simply Balanced (all store brands), then you'll find those are almost always on sale on a rotating basis. Combined with Cartwheel (an underutilized tool, frankly) and the 5% off with the RedCard and you can pretty easily chop a huge chunk off your grocery bill (or whatever else you're buying).

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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby MNdible » September 16th, 2014, 9:07 am

I'm comparing the newer Targets with "full grocery". If I end up at one, it's usually the Richfield store off of 77 or the Southdale store. But, no, I'm not impressed with their selection.

I appreciate that a Cub has an actual meat department with actual butchers -- this is where Target really falls short, with their very limited selection of over-priced pre-packaged meats. I'll agree that the produce isn't spectacular, but I still think it's better than Target, where (like the meat department) everything seems pre-packaged.

I probably pay more attention to grocery prices than I should, but in general, when something is on sale at Target, it usually has a big SALE sign with small print noting that you're saving 7 cents. And I do have a Red Card. But in my anecdotal research, I'm quite certain that a smart shopper will save significantly at a Cub.

And, even though I'm not a full-throated union backer, I do appreciate that Cub is a union shop.

xandrex
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby xandrex » September 16th, 2014, 10:45 am

Fair enough. If you're a bargain hunter, Cub very well might have better options. I know that one of my friends swears by Cub because of their deals, but he isn't one to eat particularly healthy (lots of frozen and packaged foods) with almost no fruit or veggies in his condo. And he's willing to drive around for a deal--which frankly, probably negates the few cents he's saving. I just want to get in, get the stuff I need, and go (hopefully saving money in the process).

Lancestar2

Re: Grocery Stores

Postby Lancestar2 » November 15th, 2014, 7:24 pm

In regards to Hy-Vee's expansion currently has stores planned for New Hope, Oakdale, and Lakeville with a possible store in Shakopee pending a deal with a local tenant vacating existing space. The Maple grove location dropped.

While Cub plans to build a new store in White Bear Lake (on old Kmart site)
Plus we seen 2 more Rainbow foods locations close bringing the total down to 4 stores. Seems kinda odd to continue an expensive marketing such as newspaper inserts and coupons for now only 4 stores. I did notice that Rainbow now sells Essential Everyday products which are supplied via SuperValu.

I think the coming grocery wars in the twin cities market are going to get pretty interesting!

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Grocery Stores

Postby FISHMANPET » November 15th, 2014, 8:27 pm

Yeah a Rainbow is identical to a cub now, as they're selling the same products and (at least in the cub-rainbow pair on Lake St) run by the same company, so there's no difference. Since the Rainbows were kept Rainbows because they were too close to existing Cubs, I can't imagine any of them lasting very long. I honestly don't know what they were thinking, it couldn't have been cheap to replace all the product in the store and rehire/retrain all the employees.

Actually, something I'm curious about. What did they do with all the inventory when they switched over? Did Roundy's keep the Roundy's products and ship them to another DC? Did Cub just donate all the Roundy's products to a food bank or something and keep the name brand products around?


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