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Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:02 am
by amiller92
winterfan wrote: We also aggressively paid off the mortgage (basically paid what was left from my salary after my retirement contributions).
To each his own, but I'm not a fan of paying the mortgage down early, especially in a low rate environment. I'd rather have that wealth invested elsewhere, where it hopefully earns a better return and is quite a bit more liquid.

That said, I have lately been thinking about how much less income we'd need if we didn't have a mortgage.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:08 am
by QuietBlue
I think the effect of higher interest rates isn't so much whether they'll influence someone's decision to buy a house, so much as it impacts how expensive of a house they buy (i.e. lower priced houses will still have buyers, it's the more expensive ones that will be in trouble).

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:10 am
by mattaudio
I used to be of the same thinking - viewing my assets, debt, and cash flow more like a business to operate. But over time I've realized there would be non-tangible benefits to being mortgage-free, so I'm working on getting there too. Mr. Money Mustache also talks about how he made the choice to pay off his mortgage despite other likely better places for that investment. At the end of the day, I don't think people have ever wished they had more personal debt at any point in their lives - even if secured mortgage debt.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:22 am
by QuietBlue
amiller92 wrote:I get uncomfortable in a housing market in which things are listed mid-week and sold by (or before) Sunday for above ask. I worry that means we're reaching a top.
Is this happening all over, though, or just in certain markets/neighborhoods? I had the impression it was mainly taking place in particular areas, but I could be wrong. I'm thinking back to how things were in 2004-2005, where it was so crazy that there would even be bidding wars for no-frills exurban townhouses. I don't think we're at that point yet, though, unless it really has gotten that intense.

We're also in a somewhat different economic and financial environment too, which should hopefully keep things from getting overheated (tighter lending standards, more oversight, etc).

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:22 am
by amiller92
It's hard to use your home equity to travel the world in retirement, though ;)

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:30 am
by amiller92
QuietBlue wrote:Is this happening all over, though, or just in certain markets/neighborhoods?
Don't know, but I guess I should point out that the houses I'm talking about are at a bit higher price point that has been mentioned in this thread.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 10:49 am
by MNdible
amiller92 wrote:Also, if houses are just now reaching the values they saw in 2007, well, it is 9 years later. Getting back to the trend from that long ago doesn't sound so scary.
Especially since, I'd argue, most neighborhoods in Minneapolis are more desirable, attractive, and walkable than they were 9 years ago. Kingfield, where I live, has added a significant number of restaurants, etc., and people seem to appreciate these neighborhood amenities more than ever.

Related, you have an ever-larger number of metro residents who are competing for a slowly decreasing number stock of SFH's in Minneapolis.

So, the above suggests that increases in Minneapolis housing prices are probably appropriate and sustainable -- however, if you're looking for an affordable starter home in a popular Minneapolis neighborhood, good luck with that.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 29th, 2016, 11:35 am
by Viktor Vaughn
David Greene wrote:There are super-cheap houses very close to Victory Memorial. I spent my first five years of life up there, though on the Robbinsdale side. I would definitely look there if I were in the market. Ditto all down Theo Wirth. I'd also look at Harrison. Right across the street from Bryn Mawr at half the price plus two LRT lines coming.
Hey, I spent the first five years of my life living just off Victory Memorial too! My sister lives up there and has been trying to talk us into that neighborhood. I'm far from convinced, though. It seems pretty distant from most things and feels more like Brooklyn Center than the city proper. Also, we have two preschoolers, so I we got to consider the school situation. My sister is convinced that the area schools are good (she doesn't have kids though), but given the level of poverty I just don't think that's true.

We've also given serious thought to Harrison. I could see that neighborhood improving a lot in the next couple of decades as Bryn Mar and the North Loop expand and light rail is (maybe) built.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 30th, 2016, 10:28 am
by John21
twincitizen wrote:^I'm in the exact same position. I would really like to buy this spring/summer/fall, and take advantage of the very low interest rates. BUT, the market is just scary right now. Prices are up ~20% over a couple years ago (i.e. $175k house in 2013 is $210k today), and yeah in many places, prices are now reaching/exceeding the peak of the bubble a decade ago. I don't think we're on the verge of a bubble or anything; like there's probably not another looming financial crisis / housing sector crisis any time soon...but I'd obviously not want to buy and then see a 20% drop in value in another couple years!

The available inventory right now is just astoundingly low. Even if you consider "starter" range to go up to $240-250k (and you kinda have to nowadays), there is still next to nothing on the market. Like you almost have to know if someone is selling their house before it hits the open market.

Will the market ease up naturally, like if I waited until late summer or fall? Is it possible that some of the current rush of demand will be satiated by then (particularly the most motivated buyers), and also the high selling prices will draw more sellers to put their houses up for sale?

*And no, I'm not only looking in "hot" neighborhoods or whatever. My search area includes pretty much everything between ~35th Street and 70th Street on the southside. I'm casting a pretty wide net geographically, over a dense area with a lot of homes (relative to the rest of the metro). I should be able to find something I like, within my budget. My advantage over other buyers, I guess, is that I don't need to buy a house right now for any particular reason, other than that I would like to eventually (like in the next year+)
It does seem pretty crazy right now. This house near me just went up a couple of weeks ago and had a ton of lookers right away. Then nothing at all, I was thinking it was a bit overpriced at 230k. Then I checked the listing to see that a sale is pending. I'm interested to see the sale price. It sold for 255k back in 2007. All I know is I'm glad I bought in 2010!

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 30th, 2016, 12:43 pm
by min-chi-cbus
John21 wrote:
twincitizen wrote:^I'm in the exact same position. I would really like to buy this spring/summer/fall, and take advantage of the very low interest rates. BUT, the market is just scary right now. Prices are up ~20% over a couple years ago (i.e. $175k house in 2013 is $210k today), and yeah in many places, prices are now reaching/exceeding the peak of the bubble a decade ago. I don't think we're on the verge of a bubble or anything; like there's probably not another looming financial crisis / housing sector crisis any time soon...but I'd obviously not want to buy and then see a 20% drop in value in another couple years!

The available inventory right now is just astoundingly low. Even if you consider "starter" range to go up to $240-250k (and you kinda have to nowadays), there is still next to nothing on the market. Like you almost have to know if someone is selling their house before it hits the open market.

Will the market ease up naturally, like if I waited until late summer or fall? Is it possible that some of the current rush of demand will be satiated by then (particularly the most motivated buyers), and also the high selling prices will draw more sellers to put their houses up for sale?

*And no, I'm not only looking in "hot" neighborhoods or whatever. My search area includes pretty much everything between ~35th Street and 70th Street on the southside. I'm casting a pretty wide net geographically, over a dense area with a lot of homes (relative to the rest of the metro). I should be able to find something I like, within my budget. My advantage over other buyers, I guess, is that I don't need to buy a house right now for any particular reason, other than that I would like to eventually (like in the next year+)
It does seem pretty crazy right now. This house near me just went up a couple of weeks ago and had a ton of lookers right away. Then nothing at all, I was thinking it was a bit overpriced at 230k. Then I checked the listing to see that a sale is pending. I'm interested to see the sale price. It sold for 255k back in 2007. All I know is I'm glad I bought in 2010!
You couldn't have picked a better time to buy than 2010 or 2011.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 30th, 2016, 9:56 pm
by EOst

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 30th, 2016, 10:31 pm
by winterfan
EOst wrote:Just going to leave this here: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhom ... 34#photo17
LOL- my husband and I were just looking at that moments ago! I don't know if I have another renovation in me though.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: April 30th, 2016, 11:15 pm
by David Greene
So you spend $99k + ~$150k to renovate and you're basically around the median price for homes in the area. Except yours is brick, has most if not all of its original windows and woodwork, includes a huge (relatively) back yard, a 2 1/2 story carriage house and some weird assortment of garages. If you can do some of the work yourself and/or have friends in the business, it seems entirely realistic that you'd end up with a pretty damn nice house.

Of course, this is all assuming a good foundation which is definitely not a given. Also it likely needs completely new mechanicals, plumbing and electrical.

Someone should be able to negotiate a much better price.

Seriously, this is not unlike at least 1-2 houses on the Home Tour each year. The pictures are similar to what people have tackled before and produced amazing results. You don't have to do it all at once.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 2nd, 2016, 2:09 pm
by twincitizen
School talk was split off here: https://forum.streets.mn/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4058

Thanks David!

The house search continues...

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 2nd, 2016, 2:28 pm
by mattaudio
Build a fourplex, Brillhart.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 3rd, 2016, 7:39 am
by Viktor Vaughn
Finance and Commerce (Unlocked) - Homes under $200K in shortest supply
http://finance-commerce.com/2016/05/ind ... st-supply/

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 12th, 2016, 4:37 pm
by EOst
Any bets on what these would sell for if they weren't in North?

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2023- ... 9226_zpid/
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1500- ... 9390_zpid/
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1600- ... 9441_zpid/

Somewhat unexpectedly my partner and I have been looking at buying a condo/house, and prices are insane in South, but I would worry that we would have a hard time selling anything we bought over North in a few years. Damn if it isn't tempting, though.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 12th, 2016, 5:18 pm
by winterfan
The middle one on 22nd Ave is nice! It's not huge, but I think it would probably go for around 320K or so in SW. I'm curious why they are selling it so quickly. It shows the last sale was March 2016.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 13th, 2016, 8:35 am
by EOst
I wondered about that too. The woodwork in the Willow Ave house is lovely, too, but clearly they are asking too much.

Re: Renting vs. Owning | Apartments vs. Condos

Posted: May 13th, 2016, 3:01 pm
by David Greene
To me the Willow Ave. house is worth the most because it seems to be the best-preserved, though I know most people don't put that at the top of their lists. The price could come down a bit but I don't think it's that out of line (look at the value graph for Jordan on the page). I feel like that part of Jordan is one of the more interesting places in North Minneapolis. The curvy roads and tree-lined boulevards give it almost a park-like feel. Lots of tornado damage on that block though. :(

The house has its original rope-and-pulley windows which is a huge asset. It also looks like it has it's original (or very well done replica) base boards, caps and shoes, something I really wish our house still had. Nice doors too, except the bathroom door was probably replaced (wrong hardware). The bathroom is a bit of a remuddle which is par for the course; better than most I've seen. The radiator pipes in the living room are annoying and were probably moved there at some point.

Overall, someone (or more likely someones) really cared for this place, either by taking care of it or spending a lot of money painstakingly restoring it.

It's funny/annoying that the ad advertises "vintage Victorian details." That's not a Victorian. It was built during the same period as our house and is best described as "Transitional." That archway detail in particular *is* Victorian and is completely out of place for a house of that period. Most likely the archway originally had the two side extensions on the bottom with simple pillars that extended all the way to the top of the arch. Ours were removed at some point but you can still (barely) see the outlines of where the pillars and extensions used to meet the head and jambs.

The stained glass window is also suspect. It doesn't look like others I've seen from that period and was likely replaced because someone at some time removed all the leaded/stained glass from the place. Lots of houses are missing their original decorative windows and it's a real shame.

The porch balustrade was added/replaced at some point because it's way too tall due to code requirements. That's probably my #1 beef with our housing code. The required porch balustrade heights don't fit our housing stock and just looks ugly.

Yeah, I did a lot of research on our house and now I see the flaws in every house. :-/ This house is in way better shape than ours when I bought it.