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Third Wave Coffee Shops

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 7:15 am
by Minneapolisite
In Chicago and just had a very satisfying latte at a new coffee shop (not Intelligentsia, which seems to be closed whether I arrive early in the morning or in the late afternoon). It made me notice once again that the core of our Downtown is seriously lacking a serious coffee shop. While the Loop isn't overflowing with them: there is a plethora of Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts after all, they are at least an option. Even in my hometown of Columbus the (arguably) best coffee shop in town is right in the heart of Downtown and they're even looking to expand with another downtown location. Meanwhile, Nicollet has a few coffee chains and Hennepin has nothing that I can think of. While it's not surprising that the Loop has at least a handful of such spots, I can;t help but wonder why Columbus can manage two excellent spots in its downtown core (population 6,300), yet us with 40,000 can't offer anything but Caribou or Dunn Bros?

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 9:35 am
by Wedgeguy
You seriously need to open your eyes for coffee houses on Hennepin that are not chains. Spyhouse is at about 22nd and Hennepin which I think has good coffee. Leather and Latte at 2717 Hennepin has some kick a$$ cold press coffee and a great selection of teas was well as great coffee and pastries and now sandwiches that are bought in daily from a great independent bakery and sandwich shop. Uncommon Ground, just sound of 28th won best Chai for many years from City Pages. They are there for those who are willing to go in and check them out.
If you are pissing and moaning about downtown Hennepin only then, HIGH RENT, is what keeps independent coffee houses out that section of the street. Also Hennepin is not exactly your usual foot traffic that will stop for a coffee on the way to work. It is off the beaten path for those on the grab and go and not really an area where people would come to hangout and drink coffee and use the Wi Fi. Again think before you spout off. You might need an economics class to help with future posts!

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 9:40 am
by Nick
Who's telling who to take classes now?

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 10:52 am
by Nathan
I think another reason we don't see an Independent Coffee shop break into DT (cost aside) is that there are already a number of Caribou's and Dunn Bro's... and while they are chains, they are local, and people hold a big loyalty to them. (the last time I was in DT Seattle, it felt similar to me... even the not starbucks were owned by starbucks) Especially, I think, a lot of people coming into the city from the burbs for work. They want what they can get at home at work too.

Also, we're (generally) a conservative people... 5 dollars for a latte that takes you 8 minutes to make OMG I'VE NEVER!!!

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 11:06 am
by Wedgeguy
Unlike neighborhoods where you have people who will coming in for an hour and have a coffee or two and work on their lap top. Downtown is not really filled with that kind of person. Downtown looks for volume in coffee sold, not having a place for people to hangout for awhile and talk, surf, or relax. Remember that downtown is filled with hipsters and they would probably not go to an independent coffee house. Half joking there!

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 9:09 pm
by David Greene
Espresso Royale?

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 12th, 2014, 10:11 pm
by Avian
There is Segue Coffee on 10th between Portland and Park too. Sandwiches, pastries, entertainment on Fridays and WiFi. Just outside the core is The Nicollet at Franklin & Nicollet and the Boiler Room at 18th & 3rd Av. The Nicollet also has frequent live entertainment.

Also downtown is Moose & Sadie's, Corner Coffee and Janine's.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 13th, 2014, 6:31 am
by talindsay
David Greene wrote:Espresso Royale?
They are a chain.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 13th, 2014, 9:23 pm
by David Greene
talindsay wrote:
David Greene wrote:Espresso Royale?
They are a chain.
Thanks, I've wondered about that. Is it the same as the several in Ann Arbor, MI? They serve different stuff so I thought not.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 13th, 2014, 9:30 pm
by Silophant

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 13th, 2014, 10:50 pm
by Tyler
Heh. I agree with Minneapolisite and have wondered the same. He's talking about a "third wave" shop (ie. someone who knows how to pull a decent shot) rather than whether a it's a chain or not. I'm pretty sure there is huge opportunity here. Cities with similar coffee scenes in general have successful and super busy options in their central business districts. I'm not thinking of a sprawling hangout place. Something small and likely in the skyway. Like the Sam Jones in Toronto's PATH.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 14th, 2014, 5:47 am
by jet777
Shinola on the corner of 3rd and Washington applied for a permit to sell coffee. While not a traditional coffeehouse, I'm hoping whoever is serving them up knows what they're doing because they are using Intelligentsia.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 14th, 2014, 7:37 am
by uptowncarag
Even though it is a chain I am surprised there is not a Dogwood Coffee downtown. The ones in MIA and Calhoun Square are fantastic.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 14th, 2014, 12:04 pm
by beauss
People's Organic in the IDS is the only place I know of that does a pour over in Downtown. FWIW, I actually prefer their drip coffee.

As somebody above wrote, you have to do a lot of volume to cover rent downtown. It's also a pretty time sensitive customer base, which doesn't lend itself to single serve pour over service. I don't see why a Dogwood type of shop wouldn't work in the North Loop though.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 14th, 2014, 4:50 pm
by Wedgeguy
I still see the core and a grab and go primarily. Why the chains have this market. A lot of the other coffee houses that were mentioned after my post are not in the CB , but on the edge and many are within easy walking distance for the residential neighborhoods, North Loop, Loring, Elliot. Here you have people who have the time and not in a hurry. Where the rents are more reasonable compared to downtown. This is where the best chance of success is for the independents. Banks are not going to loan you that kind of money for a downtown operation without the ability to show you will have the volume business plan.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 15th, 2014, 8:55 am
by Jacobean

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 15th, 2014, 12:29 pm
by Wedgeguy
Jacobean wrote:Does One on One count?

http://www.oneononebike.com/coffee.html
I'd put that on the very edge of the CBD. I'd put it in the North Loop myself, with Dock and 222 within a blocks walking distance and easy walking distance of other residential, it is what I would call a neighborhood coffee house. Similar to Espresso Royale which get a lot of their business from 2 colleges and the residential that is within a few blocks walking distance. You will not see very many business people hangin out in there with their suits and ties.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 15th, 2014, 7:41 pm
by Minneapolisite
Wedgeguy wrote:You seriously need to open your eyes for coffee houses on Hennepin that are not chains. Spyhouse is at about 22nd and Hennepin which I think has good coffee. Leather and Latte at 2717 Hennepin has some kick a$$ cold press coffee and a great selection of teas was well as great coffee and pastries and now sandwiches that are bought in daily from a great independent bakery and sandwich shop. Uncommon Ground, just sound of 28th won best Chai for many years from City Pages. They are there for those who are willing to go in and check them out.
You must think you're in the Uptown version of this thread: it clearly says "Downtown" Restaurant News on this one.
Wedgeguy wrote:If you are pissing and moaning about downtown Hennepin only then, HIGH RENT, is what keeps independent coffee houses out that section of the street. Also Hennepin is not exactly your usual foot traffic that will stop for a coffee on the way to work. It is off the beaten path for those on the grab and go and not really an area where people would come to hangout and drink coffee and use the Wi Fi. Again think before you spout off. You might need an economics class to help with future posts!
I am pissing and moaning about the "core of our Downtown", which last I checked includes Hennepin. Someone might want to take a reading comprehension course before spouting off. As far as rent goes I'll go out on a limb and say rent in the Loop in Chicago is surely a good deal higher, yet that hasn't stopped a number of such establishments from opening there even with "a plethora of Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts" to borrow from my OP once again. And they have done so a good deal away from Michigan Ave where all the tourists are, so maybe I might not need a crash course in economics after all.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 15th, 2014, 7:50 pm
by Minneapolisite
And Dogwood would be great,though I would also be for a Spyhouse expansion into Downtown, but as far as Espresso Royale, it's simply not in the same league.

Re: Downtown Restaurant News

Posted: July 15th, 2014, 8:26 pm
by Wedgeguy
Minneapoliite There is plenty of vacant space on Hennepin. I'll say that you should make a business plan and take it to a bank and get financing to open in one of those vacant spaces. As they say, " If you want it done right , do it yourself." You want an independent coffee house, be the lead investor, you have plenty of spaces to chose from. Tell us what the bank says to your plan.