Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

[David Greene]

It looked very much like an MPD or state trooper patch.

Actually, the Strib is reporting it was a patch with a symbol representing a racist web site. Might wanna back off on the alarmist speculation.

http://www.startribune.com/social-media ... 353411111/

Not that video. It's a different one. Here's a tweet about it:

https://twitter.com/BlackLivesMpls/stat ... 9175788544

Sounds like a police infltrator, probably not one of the terrorists.

I'm still trying to find the video.

[David Greene]

The Strib article didn't mention the incident that David is referring to. David is referring to the video at the bottom of this article: http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/11/v ... is-agent/#

Yep, that's the one.

[kirby96]

Ahh, in that case, speculate away!

[David Greene]

What's disturbing about this is that the person who got in the car had, according to people at #4thPrecinctShutDown, been shouting racist slurs and generally antagonizing the crowd.

If law enforcement actively supports people making racist statements and agitating to rile people up...man. At some point it doesn't matter whether law enforcement was directly involved with the terrorists. They're fomenting a climate that inevitably leads to violence.

[Tiller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLmWa4t_AGg

So apparently the channers' visit was 4 days before the shooting (and they apparently got kicked out?), so the two events may or not be directly related, and it seems things are getting blended together a bit. Since this occured before the shooting, their info was probably ready/available to give to the police as people of interest, many people thinking it was probably them.

The law enforcement lead is particularly troubling and frustrating, and I can't believe there are no laws to stop police from infiltrating and trying to break up protest movements. That shit has been happening ever since Edgar Hoover and it's completely unacceptable that we've done nothing to stop it in all these decades.

[Tiller]

So I went a more primary-ish source, and It's pretty certain that a portion of the group was there a second time and were in fact involved, though no clear confirmation about the cop infiltrator thing. There is also allegedly video footage of whatever happened, so we should be able to get some clear answers.

[amiller92]

I'm already dreading the "self-defense" stories the shooters seem likely to try to sell to get off.

A deal I was working on closed Tuesday morning, so I went up to join the march. Absent the shooting, I probably would not have as I'm not much for protesting and chanting, but I thought it was important to reject that kinds of violence.

I was pleased with the really positive jibe.

[Sacrelicio]

http://stmedia.startribune.com/document ... 013170.pdf

Charges against Scarsella. Second degree assault? I'd figure 1st at the least, possibly attempted murder.

[VAStationDude]

It's possible he will be charged with a more serious crime at a later date. Whether shooting someone who will make a full or near full recovery is first degree assault worthy of 20 years in prison isn't a slam dunk no brainer, imo.

I assume multiple convictions of second degree assault will result in sentences stacking. Any lawyers know if that is true?

Ten years in prison is hardly a weak sentence.

[xandrex]

I swear I saw somewhere that the counts against the shooter could add up to potentially 55 years in prison. Of course, I'd be surprised if he gets a fraction of that.

[David Greene]

Gotta say I'm super disappointed with Ellison. I get his point about tactic vs. goal but pressure and disruption is necessary to achieve the goal. Hodges was already a lost cause but I had some hope that Ellison would at least stay out of Hodges' picture.

[Snelbian]

I occasionally hear people say that the great thing about social media is that it brings the normally quiet racists out into the light. I think the 4th precinct situation is doing something similar with Minneapolis politics, highlighting which "progressives" are really progressives (Cano, Bender) and which are liberals who play progressives at election time (Ellison, Hodges). For that matter, look at Hodges' rapid backtracking on the restaurant work ordinance situation.

[amiller92]

What gets me is that if what they are trying to do is get people to go home and stop blocking the street, holding press conferences and publicly calling for it is not the way to do that. It only prolongs the protest, giving people something new to defy.

But they must know that, which suggests that they are doing something more cynical, attempting to appease those who are otherwise annoyed that people are out protesting.

Hodges calling them "a distraction" really takes that cake, though.

[nordeast homer]

Don't you think that at some point once a protest has gained the attention it desired and has gotten some of the results it desired that prolonged demonstrating tends to start being white noise? Anyone on the fringe starts getting annoyed by it rather than getting behind whatever cause it may be.
Part of the issue that a lot of people have is that there is a process and the protesters aren't interested in a process, they only want instant results. Investigations take time and rushing an investigation never helps anyone. In the past protesters would picket and riot after a trial, now they aren't interested in a trial or due process, they want someones head and nothing less, and they want it now. Social media has made everyone less patient and less likely to let the justice system takes its course.

[kirby96]

What gets me is that if what they are trying to do is get people to go home and stop blocking the street, holding press conferences and publicly calling for it is not the way to do that. It only prolongs the protest, giving people something new to defy.

But they must know that, which suggests that they are doing something more cynical, attempting to appease those who are otherwise annoyed that people are out protesting.

Who would that be though? I have a hard time believing that Ellison's office is being flooded with calls from his constituents and wealthy donors in South Minneapolis demanding this thing end. There's literally NO negative talk about the protest that I've heard in my social events the past few weeks, and that's probably because (outside the March downtown) the only people put out by the protest as it stands are North Minneapolis residents and the police (only about 5% of whom even live in his district), and Ellison isn't beholden to the police like Hodges is. I'm willing to give him some rope here.

My cynical thinking is that Dayton and Hodges have more or less agreed to a good cop/bad cop thing because of the competing constituencies Hodges must juggle. Ellison on the other hand, is a fed and so I don't see any immediate self-serving motivation other than to do what he actually feels is best for his constituents. I suppose you could argue he'd get some credibility and publicity for getting this thing over, but that seems like a stretch and it seems like it only appeases people he wouldn't be all that concerned with impressing anyways.

[mattaudio]

Persistence and longevity matters. Laquan McDonald's murder, and the year-long coverup that followed, made that clear.

[David Greene]

Part of the issue that a lot of people have is that there is a process and the protesters aren't interested in a process, they only want instant results.

The process IS the problem. Thus, "the whole damn system is guilty."

Several lawyers have come out and said it's time to release the tapes. If investigators haven't interviewed everyone yet then they are seriously delaying the process.

Appointing a special prosecutor is a reasonable request given the history of grand juries in this country.

The protests are applying pressure. What we saw yesterday was a reaction to that pressure. Keep applying pressure.

[amiller92]

Who would that be though?

Start with the police union and go from there. I don't know how important it is to Ellison, but it may not be irrelevant.

He's probably not getting a lot calls from wealthy south Minneapolitans, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of them that are annoyed by BLM and protest generally.

[amiller92]

The process IS the problem. Thus, "the whole damn system is guilty."

I'm quite concerned about Ellison saying it's with the grand jury now. I'm hoping Freeman won't use the grand jury as prosecutors often do in police-involved cases, as a tool to shift blame for his decision not the prosecute (see, Mike Brown), but fear that we're going to hear, "I presented it all to the grand jury and they decided not to indict."

That's not how its supposed to work. If the prosecutor wants an indictment, he can get one. If he doesn't, then he should say that and explain his reasoning. Pretending that a secret, non-adversarial procedure can fairly make close calls is the system being the problem.

[xandrex]

Start with the police union and go from there. I don't know how important it is to Ellison, but it may not be irrelevant.

He's probably not getting a lot calls from wealthy south Minneapolitans, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of them that are annoyed by BLM and protest generally.

Some might be annoyed by BLM, but wealthy South Minneapolitans really aren't affected by the protests. Hell, normal Southsiders aren't either. If you were somehow able to ignore the news and social media and don't have to go to the Northside, you wouldn't even know this is going on. I live in Whittier and work downtown. The last few weeks haven't felt different at all, except for when there was the protest march to City Hall (I work kitty corner from there). A rich progressive living in Kenwood that's concerned about racial inequity would have it made - they get to have the issue raised without any of the mess on their streets.

Given that the 5th District is so incredibly blue, I don't think he has to appeal to moderates with his language. I also don't think he is worried about a challenge from the left. It would be hard for someone to look at his voting record (and being the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus) and really differentiate themselves as a viable candidate. Ellison was also part of the protests earlier, if I remember correctly. So it strikes me that, for better or for worse, he said what he said because he believed it. He doesn't have a lot to lose either way.