Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

[David Greene]

It is a "how can we make sure #BLM affects meaningful change?" kind of concern.

They already have. Sanders significantly changed his platform. Reforms in policing are being made around the country. People care about the issue. Even those critical of BLM admit there is a policing problem. That was not the case before BLM.

Occupy Wall Street grabbed headlines for a while, but ultimately didn't do much besides start conversations (which haven't lead to much until today).

I disagree. Sanders can attribute a lot of his success from the conversations OWS began. Shifting worldviews is as important, if not more so, than policy changes. Policy changes flow from ideas and ideas flow from worldview. As Milton Friedman said, "when you have a time of crisis what happens depends on what ideas are floating around, and what ideas have been developed, and thought through, and are made effective." Friedman was wildly successful at completely changing how we approach economic and moral questions. To our great shame, I might add.

Part of the issue might just be that not much time has passed, but mass movements in the past have been able to successfully agitate for change, so we know it is entirely possible.

Those movements made steady progress over long periods of time. How long did it take the Abolitionists to reach their goal? How long did it take civil rights advocates? Indeed, that work is still ongoing.

First you have to change minds. Then you change policy.

[Didier]

The suggestion of credibility isn't because the author is a lawyer. It's because he's a black man who purports to be as earnestly interested in black issues as everybody else. The author simply has a different vision for how to harness the momentum to more positively affect black lives.

Personally, I agree with the author's critique of the leadership and the statement that "the movement must quickly pivot and embrace a bigger tent that is inclusive of the most critical challenges that face the black community."

But obviously that's just my opinion, and if others believe that staying the course and focusing primarily on police abuse is the way to go, they're free to hold that opinion. My point of being here is that I'm open to hearing the case for why the latter is the right course. So far I've mostly just been attacked as if I'm promoting some sort of extremist viewpoint.

[Tiller]

I fully agree with you David, and your points are basically the caveats I made. I was mostly just representing the author's argument clearly so it could be addressed. The movement's narrow focus has been helpful for getting it's demands addressed, and its focus should remain narrow until said demands are mostly addressed (which of course, is my opinion on the matter). However, once that point is reached, then it'd probably be safe to move on to other related issues.

[LakeCharles]

Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote a lengthy, difficult, great piece in the Atlantic October issue about the police/prison industrial complex:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... on/403246/

Long, but well-worth a read, it even includes a Minnesota reference:
"Examining Minnesota’s system, Richard S. Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, found a state whose relatively sane justice policies give it one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country—and yet whose economic disparities give it one of the worst black-white incarceration ratios in the country."

[Didier]

Black Lives Matter has decided to disrupt the end of the Twin Cities Marathon.

[bubzki2]

I don't think I'll be in the best of moods if I find a crowd blocking me at mile 25 or so. Then again, I won't have the strength to fight them. I hope they do this with some class - if they must do it.

[Wedgeguy]

Hate to say they are doing more damage to their reputation, than helping their cause by doing this. Here I would say no publicity is better that bad publicity.

[Silophant]

I have heard that the best way to affect public opinion is to stay out of sight of the public.

[David Greene]

Hate to say they are doing more damage to their reputation, than helping their cause by doing this. Here I would say no publicity is better that bad publicity.

This is nothing new. People have been saying, "I support your cause but not your [tactics/strategies/focus/outreach/etc.]" forever. MLK dealt with it, BLM has dealt with it. They rightfully ignore it and do what they need to do.

Unless one is in deep relationship with a movement's leaders, one shouldn't expect to be listened to.

MLK said the biggest obstacle to racial justice is the moderate white person.

[grant1simons2]

MLK held a giant speech with a mix of whites and blacks and people of all walks of life in Washington where all the politicians and people who make big decisions that affect our life are. The Twin Cities marathon includes blacks and whites and people from all walks of life who each already have equal opportunities to win this race they've been training so long for. Now, I hope that this protest is not a blockade. If I were to hold a protest at the marathon it would be on the sides of the finish line where the cameras are and the most people stand and wait for the finishers.

[Wedgeguy]

Maybe us moderate people need to just Jump in from of a train for them. I live in across from the house where that first kid broke into the house and was killed. I dealt with loitering in front of my home with radios blasting and kids yelling at each other. I've dealt 2-3 marches starting there, Anniversary sit ins, The like. I worry about the safety of my black friends, but when even they say it is BS to do disrupt, I'll take their word as to what they themselves think of it, not the white folks on here.

[Snelbian]

I'm not sure taking the word of a handful of black people you personally know and have commented that way as somehow representative is much better. I mean, Ben Carson doesn't think racism is real. That doesn't mean he's right.

[Snelbian]

I have heard that the best way to affect public opinion is to stay out of sight of the public.

I think the marathon should find an empty parking lot somewhere nearby but where nobody will be seen or heard. That way they can pretend that they worked with BLM organizers and offered an acceptable compromise protest.

[MNdible]

Somewhere between there and ruining an event that thousands of people have spent months preparing for is probably a reasonable solution.

[Snelbian]

To be fair, I'd probably be more sympathetic if races and marathons weren't routinely interrupting life on my street. I love being told I can't go to the bakery and dry cleaners (or at least I need to go nearly a mile out of my way on foot) because a bunch of people from out of town rented a major arterial for their private use instead of just using a high school track.

[Wedgeguy]

Somewhere between there and ruining an event that thousands of people have spent months preparing for is probably a reasonable solution.

Amen

[EOst]

Somewhere between there and ruining an event that thousands of people have spent months preparing for is probably a reasonable solution.

I agree, meaningless "healthy living" events are far more important than people being murdered in the streets.

[mulad]

Here's something for a different angle on the whole criminal justice pipeline, the documentary made by Vice around the president's visit to inmates at the El Reno federal prison in Oklahoma:

[David Greene]

Somewhere between there and ruining an event that thousands of people have spent months preparing for is probably a reasonable solution.

I agree, meaningless "healthy living" events are far more important than people being murdered in the streets.

I am honestly shocked at how people I know who otherwise are very in line with how I look at the world are suddenly totally pissed off about a BLM action at the marathon. I guess when it's your ox being gored...

I'm at a complete loss as to how to talk to them about this.

[Nathan]

I think the fair was a good place to engage with Minnesotans who may not be otherwise forced to based on the fairs political nature, but I do have a hard time with the marathon. It's not really a political stage, it's hardly televised and it does put people in danger. When you've been running over 20 miles your body can do weird things and not react the way you would like it to, so if there were to be a large disruption people would probably get injured. I know that's not the same as "people have died" but I never think harm fixes harm. Is rather see them doing proactive things like taking overa huge section of the crowd holding signs encouraging runners that black lives matter, rather than making thousands more people spiteful. Some tactics only polarize issues more.