Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

[David Greene]

I'm just gonna leave this here and see what you all make of it.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/306408851/Vi ... anscript-2

[WHS]

The testimony of the party-goers and EMTs (here: http://www.hennepinattorney.org/~/media ... .pdf?la=en) is surprisingly consistent about the events prior to Schwarze and Ringgenberg's arrival: there was a fight between a second couple, and then it seems that there was some kind of fight between Hayes and Clark, maybe in private, in which she hit him in the face or slammed his face against a wall or door. Somewhere during or after this she hurt her ankle on the stairs and called an ambulance. I couldn't find any of the other witnesses talking about Clark attacking her at all, although she apparently reported this to the EMTs and had a split lip and facial injuries. He tries to find out where the ambulance is going by telling the EMTs she's his mother; at this point he is crying and distraught. She tells them that he is responsible for her injuries. The ambulance isn't able to leave the scene because the EMTs, at least, are trapped in the back and believe Clark is violent; at this point the cops show up.

Obviously at that point accounts begin diverging pretty substantially.

[Anondson]

Proposal for individual police officers to carry liability insurance advancing.

http://m.startribune.com/proposed-minne ... 381597781/

Some federal law enforcement already are required. But it seems that no city law enforcement in the country does.

[Anondson]

There are many takes on the avoidable tragedy of Philando Castile's death. But I am unsurprised it happened along the notorious microsuburb enforcement trap along Larpentur. Some had pointed out that in Ferguson microsuburbs hyper enforcement led to literal harassment of residents...

[jebr]

I looked at the St. Anthony Police Department's website today, and their mission statement is...interesting.

Mission Statement:
To proactively arrest offenders and prevent crime, while working with the community to solve problems and improve the overall quality of life for all we serve.

In light of this incident, it seems that their main focus is to try and find people that may be doing something illegal and get them off the streets, no matter what the consequences. It does not seem to place an emphasis on community policing or creating a livable community, only arresting people.

(Site:

Code: Select all

http://www.ci.saint-anthony.mn.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={6678B30F-C641-45FA-8180-429964869180}

because for some reason BBCode doesn't like the {} in the URL.)

[mattaudio]

Interview with John Ohl, Recently Retired Police Chief of Saint Anthony
http://tcsidewalks.blogspot.com/2016/07 ... ently.html

[seanrichardryan]

Here is the department's annual report from 2015:

http://www.ci.saint-anthony.mn.us/verti ... ressed.pdf

[Anondson]

This ThinkProgress article implies Falcon Heights contracted with St. Anthony to get revenue.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/0 ... per-stops/

Another article that cited Bill Lindeke's interview with the former chief, too.

[Silophant]

Mod note: Moved the suburban annexation tangent to its own thread.

[EOst]

"Riot charges being weighed against those arrested on I-94"
http://www.startribune.com/riot-charges ... 386296071/

I wasn't there, though I was watching intermittently through various Periscope streams. It seemed like a small minority were behind the rock/firecracker throwing, but I also watched a stream of a woman screaming insults inches away from a FOX reporter's face (if FOX can be said to have reporters...), so IDK, maybe more people got angry than just the "outside agitators."

[David Greene]

Angry != violent. Everything I have heard from people who were there said it was outside agitators who threw things then ran and left BLM to face the consequences. Whoever dropped the concrete block on the officer's head should be charged with attempted murder.

BTW, FOX 9 is not the same as Fox News.

[acs]

I think I saw somewhere that the officer hit with that block suffered serious spinal injuries, hopefully not paralyzed.

[David Greene]

Fractured vertebra.

[EOst]

Angry != violent. Everything I have heard from people who were there said it was outside agitators who threw things then ran and left BLM to face the consequences. Whoever dropped the concrete block on the officer's head should be charged with attempted murder.

Right. I don't have any problem believing that non-BLM people were behind the violence in general, because any protest is going to draw people who want to stir shit up like moths to a flame. Certainly the organizers were nonviolent and encouraged the same. But at the same time, how can you tell? An anarchist isn't going to look all that different from a first-time protestor who decided to do something stupid. It's a little bit of a "No True Scotsman" thing.

BTW, FOX 9 is not the same as Fox News.

Yeah, but their story isn't much different. Built around police framing, no non-government quoted until paragraph 7 (and it's Philando Castile's mother, calling for peace and condemning violent protests, which continues the police framing), and then an adjunct about why the police officer was right to shoot Castile (esp. para 11). No comments at all from BLM sources or anyone sympathetic to the protests.

[David Greene]

No doubt the media has a gigantic pro-police-institutions bias. All of it. I was speaking in general terms that the local FOX affiliate is pretty run-of-the-mill. KSTP is our Fox News.

[BoredAgain]

Now that we have strong evidence that a rear taillight is not the reason for the traffic stop, and it seems to be basic racial profiling, I have some questions.

http://www.kare11.com/news/police-scann ... /267042738

Is it legal for cops to lie to people when they pull them over? I suspect that if the officer had told them the real reason, then the car occupants would have responded differently and much more carefully, they would be alive, and hopefully sewing the police department for racial discrimination.

How might this affect the chance for criminal charges?

I will say that the officer's response makes a bit more sense if he legitimately believed he was dealing with a robbery suspect. I will also say that the only reason I can think of that he might have believed that is racism.

[Anondson]

It is legal for police to lie. It is also legal for police to be wrong about the law they are pulling you over for (though citizens cannot be uninformed about the laws themselves).

But the tail light was the pretext to pull over to investigate the armed robbery. I'd still say that the tail light was unambiguously the reason the car was pulled over.

[amiller92]

Now that we have strong evidence that a rear taillight is not the reason for the traffic stop, and it seems to be basic racial profiling, I have some questions.

My sense is that the general reaction is that the scanner audio makes the officer look bad. Ironically, it may help his legal defense quite a bit.

Is it legal for cops to lie to people when they pull them over?

In a word: yes.

How might this affect the chance for criminal charges?

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I don't think there will be any charges against the officer. I think he'll cite the recording as evidence that he subjectively believed that he pulled over an armed robbery suspect (no matter how baseless that belief) who then proceeded to say he had a gun, which the officer reasonably interpreted as a threat. The prosecutor may question the basis for those beliefs, but he's going to say he can't prove them unfounded thus no charges.

That's my guess anyway. And we'll be stuck with hating (1) that Mr. Castile "fit the description" primarily because of his race, (2) questioning whether it's appropriate procedure to approach a vehicle you believe contains an armed suspect by yourself and whether the officer really believed that, (3) knowing that the officer's perception of the danger involved almost certainly was biased because of Mr. Castile's race, and (4) questioning whether the standard needs to involving something more than a the officer's subjective fear.

[David Greene]

http://www.startribune.com/lawyer-casti ... 386221031/

Albert Goins, an attorney who assisted the family in the hours following the shooting, said that if Castile was indeed a robbery suspect, officers would have initiated a felony traffic stop.

“A felony stop does not usually involve officers walking up to your car and asking you to produce your driver’s license,” Goins said. “A felony stop involves bringing the suspect out at gunpoint while officers are in a position of cover and having them lie on the ground until they can identify who that individual is.”

Either way, Goins said, Yanez would have failed to follow protocol.

“Either [Castile] was a robbery suspect and [Yanez] didn’t follow the procedures for a felony stop, or [Castile] was not a robbery suspect and [Yanez] shot a man because he stood at his window getting his information,” Goins said.

[Didier]

Just a random note, but I thought it was interesting how Gov. Dayton came out and made a judgement right away, rather than waiting for the official story. Naturally people were made uncomfortable by this, and there was some backlash. But that's basically what has made Donald Trump so popular: Speak your mind now, even if you have to change your opinion later.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's something you don't often see, particularly from Democrats.