Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

[mattaudio]

[Viktor Vaughn]

Of course burning down businesses in Ferguson is counterproductive and harmful, but all of the moralistic finger pointing about rioting really misses the point. I ripped this Martin Luther King Jr. quote from Monday's MinnPost article on the subject.


ut it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

— MLK, Grosse Pointe, Michigan, March 14, 1968

[maxbaby]

Typical UrbanMSP bullshit. You try and have an opinion and you get name calling and belittled for it.

[David Greene]

I just don't see why when some blacks think they get the "short end of the stick" they need to go crazy and what I mean by crazy is rioting, looting and burning businesses down that strangely enough are black owned. I know this is a very small percentage but it's what you see thanks to the media and the above named big mouths adding fuel to the fire. They are so bias.

Ok. The "respectable black response" meme has to stop. It's abhorrent that Michael Brown's father is being charged with a crime. If Michael Brown were my son, I'd go ballistic too!

Relevant:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/k ... -protests/
http://www.minnpost.com/community-voice ... s-ferguson

[FISHMANPET]

Typical UrbanMSP bullshit. You try and have an opinion and you get name calling and belittled for it.

We're gonna call a spade a spade, and call out racism when we see it. You're free to espouse your racist opinions, just don't expect us to sit back and leave them unchallenged.

[David Greene]

owever, the very purpose of government isn't for social justice. It is for legal justice. When social justice and legal justice conflict with each other -- as they sometimes do -- then the government's duty is to come down on the side of legal justice.

You're being much too passive here. Who defines the role of government? The people. Who makes the laws under which government operates? The people. We can in fact tell the government to come down on the side of social justice. My personal calling is to do just that.

[maxbaby]

How is anything I said racist. Does the truth hurt? I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[Snelbian]

Typical UrbanMSP bullshit. You try and have an opinion and you get name calling and belittled for it.

We're gonna call a spade a spade, and call out racism when we see it. You're free to espouse your racist opinions, just don't expect us to sit back and leave them unchallenged.

Unfair. He said he's not a racist before saying the racist thing. So that one was a freebie.

[David Greene]

How is anything I said racist. Does the truth hurt? I'm just calling a spade a spade.

The "racist" label isn't helpful. But people have a very good point when they demonstrate how you describe white rioting vs. black rioting. We *all* need to examine our assumptions and biases. Often. It's very hard to be honest with oneself. Sometimes it takes others pointing out one's flaws. The language and tone isn't as helpful as it could be, but see if you can turn it around and see it as a gift. I get real mad when people point out my flaws. Then a couple of days later I usually realize what a tremendous gift it is to be surrounded by people who care enough to challenge me.

[maxbaby]

Well if that is how I came off I sure wasn't trying to be. As I myself reread my posts I guess I could see how that would be perceived. Some of my wording was off. Thanks David for the heads up.

[DFPegg]

Please consider:

#CrimingWhileWhite

http://mic.com/articles/105694/criming- ... e-standard

[mulad]

I was amazed to hear about the bizarre behaviors of the Cleveland police. The U.S. Department of Justice happened to release a pretty damning report about that city's police force yesterday. Incidents ranged from tasing a suspect who were already handcuffed -- even strapped down on a gurney in one case -- up to a huge spectacle from November 2012 when 62 police squad cars went on a high-speed chase after one couple in one car -- when they finally caught up, 11 officers unloaded 137 rounds into the car and its occupants, including shots fired by one officer who climbed onto the car's hood and shot through the windshield at point-blank range.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/0 ... 70220.html
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... ct_de.html
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watc ... 7477315747 (jump to about 1:20)

There are systemic problems in individual police forces as well as others that are broader in scope and affect many or most law enforcement agencies across the country. Systemic problems are often difficult to see because everyone involved is following the same playbook, using the same rules, whether written or unwritten. When everyone is acting in the same way, or at least accepting the questionable actions of others, the idea of what's normal and acceptable gets distorted. There has been a longstanding trend of giving police too much leeway. There aren't sufficient checks and balances in place to put a halt to overzealous police behavior.

People don't magically become infallible when they put on a uniform. I've honestly been pretty surprised at how high of a pedestal people seem to put cops, especially considering how often I've heard people get pissed off about getting speeding tickets, etc. Sadly, donning a uniform can make people lose their self-identity in some circumstances, making them more susceptible to mob-like behavior -- Something desirable for a battlefield commander, but bad in a city.

But one positive thing to try is to seek out the natural leaders across these law enforcement agencies and make sure that they are doing things in the best way possible, and therefore setting good examples for everyone else that looks up to them. As things stand now, some of the most respected cops are among the ones most egregiously violating the rules that their departments have -- I'm sure they have some of the most exciting war stories. If they can reform their behavior, great. Some of them will have to be shown the door, though.

Edit: Another indication that there are big systemic problems is that police, who are data-driven about lots of things, do not broadly and consistently track how often people get killed by officers: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/v4l2p ... n-the-dark

[EOst]

11 officers unloaded 137 rounds into the car and its occupants, including shots fired by one officer who climbed onto the car's hood and shot through the windshield at point-blank range.

Holy. Shit.

If people aren't deeply offended by that, I don't know what to say.

[Anondson]

It reads like scene from a movie parody, like Naked Gun.

[EOst]

Exactly.

You can almost imagine it being filmed in a Quentin Tarantino gorefest parody. I mean, hell, that's fewer than the police used on Bonnie and Clyde, and their car looked like this afterward.

[Anondson]

http://youtu.be/4p8_pqlJxmk

[Anondson]

5% of NY police turn in 40% of all "resisting arrest" cases.

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/6/7342241/po ... -resisting

We need the good apples to speak against the bad apples, but they refuse to.

[at40man]

I wish people wouldn't do foolhardy things like this which put themselves and others in grave danger....

[Snelbian]

Do we know if Amtrak was given warning?

[ECtransplant]

How long was the protest delayed by the train being held up by freight traffic?