Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

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EOst
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Re: The Police

Postby EOst » December 4th, 2014, 9:24 pm

I had a big comment typed up, but David Greene above said everything I wanted to say more eloquently, so I'll just defer to him there.

To be clear, a_tribe_called_chris: I have no animus against you at all, I'm sorry things got heated. If there are any issues that people should feel passionate about, though, this should certainly be among them.
Last edited by EOst on December 4th, 2014, 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

David Greene
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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 4th, 2014, 9:24 pm

Mdcastle wrote:As for $15 wages, watch drive through order taking being outsource to India (if you don't like having to understand some Indian guy when you call tech support, wait till you have to do it to order a big mac), cashiers be replaced by kiosks, and mechanized hamburger flippers be developed.
Y'know, Henry Ford was no proletariat but even he understood that paying his employees enough to buy his products makes good business sense.

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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 4th, 2014, 9:25 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:I don't really get this idea that if black people just ask nicely for their civil rights we'll be more than happy to hand them over, and they just haven't asked nicely enough yet.
Bingo.

EOst
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Re: The Police

Postby EOst » December 4th, 2014, 9:28 pm

Mdcastle wrote:As for $15 wages, watch drive through order taking being outsource to India (if you don't like having to understand some Indian guy when you call tech support, wait till you have to do it to order a big mac), cashiers be replaced by kiosks, and mechanized hamburger flippers be developed. The problem isn't that service industry workers aren't handsomely paid, but there's no alternatives since eveything from screws to iPods are made by sweatshops in China, not good American jobs.
If that's going to happen, it's probably going to happen no matter what we pay our minimum wage workers. I don't see that as a persuasive argument.

EOst
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Re: The Police

Postby EOst » December 4th, 2014, 9:29 pm

Minneboy wrote:Shutting down an interstate, for that matter protesting anywhere without a permit is plain illegal.
How do you feel about labor strikes? How about the civil disobedience during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 60s?

To make it clearer: The Birmingham marches were on public roadways, and were definitely without a permit. I don't see how you could argue that they were immoral as a result. The march to Montgomery, in fact, was on Highway 80.
Last edited by EOst on December 4th, 2014, 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 4th, 2014, 9:31 pm

In some perfect world where the law was always obeyed 100% of the time a peaceful non disruptive protest could work, all the rational human beings would see that something was wrong and fix it.

Here in our world that doesn't work. A protest like this is in part a reaction to the utter failure of the justice system as it exists to prosecute the murder of unarmed black men. I'm not sure why any reasonable person thinks that someone can work perfectly within the justice system to correct it when the justice system has proved itself in these cases to absolutely abhorrently morally corrupt. Do we expect an entire community to just go home and say "aw shucks we tried but I guess we'll just keep getting gunned down by cops." No, I'd expect them to fight back. These tactics are being employed because nothing else has worked yet.

Minneboy
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Re: The Police

Postby Minneboy » December 4th, 2014, 9:55 pm

You don't see the Klu Klux Klan shutting down the freeway because they're not happy.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 4th, 2014, 9:56 pm

Sweet merciful Christ shut up.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 4th, 2014, 9:58 pm

In the year of our Lord 2014, not being racist means more than just not shouting "NIGGER" at every black person you see.

a_tribe_called_chris
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Re: The Police

Postby a_tribe_called_chris » December 4th, 2014, 9:59 pm

EOst, I am with you. Sorry for getting all funky over our opposing views on wages.

David Greene, you also have many valid points. Income inequality is one of the major issues facing us. My wife and I may have made it to the upper middle class but its not that sweet. We have student loans that we are working on but still over $50k and we paid for what we could while in college to keep it down. Daycare is like a mortgage so I know the frustration of working hard but still having to choose what matters when it comes to purchases. We shop primarily at Aldi and have found ways to cut our expenses as much as possible.

We still have a great life but the world is scary for parents with sons of color. Even though we are raising our sons to identify as bi-racial with strong family ties on both sides I know all too well law enforcement doesn't necessarily see them as anything other than "dangerous" black thugs. Growing up, the police were always hassling me and my group of homeboys for some reason. You guys look like gangbangers or this is a known drug market even though we are just playing on our street. That "attitude" is what must change within the Law Enforcement community. Unfortunately. They are dependent upon having "bad guys" to point at and scare the simpletons to maintain the power structure status quo.

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Re: The Police

Postby Minneboy » December 4th, 2014, 10:01 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:Sweet merciful Christ shut up.
So this is your forum and you are the only one with a point of view and obviously for you the only right view. Good for you. Now I'll ask you to shut up.

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Re: The Police

Postby MNdible » December 4th, 2014, 10:04 pm

So much holier-than-thou attitude in one thread.

a_tribe_called_chris
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Re: The Police

Postby a_tribe_called_chris » December 4th, 2014, 10:12 pm


mattaudio
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Re: The Police

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2014, 10:15 pm

Wow so this is what happens after I go home and live life offline...

mattaudio
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Re: The Police

Postby mattaudio » December 4th, 2014, 10:20 pm

Image

EOst
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Re: The Police

Postby EOst » December 4th, 2014, 10:26 pm

Minneboy wrote:You don't see the Klu Klux Klan shutting down the freeway because they're not happy.
No, they just lynch people.

maxbaby
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Re: The Police

Postby maxbaby » December 4th, 2014, 10:30 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:In some perfect world where the law was always obeyed 100% of the time a peaceful non disruptive protest could work, all the rational human beings would see that something was wrong and fix it.

Here in our world that doesn't work. A protest like this is in part a reaction to the utter failure of the justice system as it exists to prosecute the murder of unarmed black men. I'm not sure why any reasonable person thinks that someone can work perfectly within the justice system to correct it when the justice system has proved itself in these cases to absolutely abhorrently morally corrupt. Do we expect an entire community to just go home and say "aw shucks we tried but I guess we'll just keep getting gunned down by cops." No, I'd expect them to fight back. These tactics are being employed because nothing else has worked yet.
Why do you keep calling this "murder"? He attacked the officer, started fighting him and tried to grab his gun. I don't care if you are black, white or purple. YOU WILL BE SHOT!!! The officer has every right to shoot if he is threatened in any way. This was just a stupid kid doing something extremely stupid. Just because he is unarmed doesn't mean he isn't dangerous. These idiots that walked onto the freeway. Who the hell do you think you are to inconvenience everybody just to spread your propaganda. If you want to protest that's absolutely fine but don't inconvenience everybody else while doing it. You people don't even know what the truth is. You're just reacting to hearsay and the media which usually blows everything out of proportion.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 4th, 2014, 10:44 pm

The death of Eric Garner was ruled a homicide by the NYC Medical Examiner.

"Your civil rights are getting in the way of my fast commute"

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Re: The Police

Postby Anondson » December 4th, 2014, 10:47 pm

maxbaby wrote:Why do you keep calling this "murder"? He attacked the officer, started fighting him and tried to grab his gun. I don't care if you are black, white or purple. YOU WILL BE SHOT!!! The officer has every right to shoot if he is threatened in any way. This was just a stupid kid doing something extremely stupid. Just because he is unarmed doesn't mean he isn't dangerous. These idiots that walked onto the freeway. Who the hell do you think you are to inconvenience everybody just to spread your propaganda. If you want to protest that's absolutely fine but don't inconvenience everybody else while doing it. You people don't even know what the truth is. You're just reacting to hearsay and the media which usually blows everything out of proportion.
You aren't talking about the same instance of police overreaction as these protesters. You are thinking of Michael Brown in St. Louis. These protesters are protesting about Eric Garner in NYC (Staten Island) an asthmatic morbidly obese man who was wrestled and choked, contributing to his death, because he objected to police harassing him again. There is no hearsay in this case, there is video for all to watch of the choking and the nonchalance while Eric Garner died on the ground and the police refused to give aid to the dying man in their custody.

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Re: The Police

Postby Silophant » December 4th, 2014, 10:50 pm

maxbaby wrote: Why do you keep calling this "murder"? He attacked the officer, started fighting him and tried to grab his gun.
You misspelled "He told the police officer to leave him alone and was strangled for his impudence" there. I realize that it's difficult to keep track of all the black men murdered by cops recently, but try to keep up.


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