Black Lives Matter, The Police, etc.

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Tyler
Foshay Tower
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Re: The Police

Postby Tyler » December 4th, 2014, 11:05 pm

It's more dangerous to drive than to be a cop.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-3 ... lice-state

Maybe its time to stop training police officers to treat the general public like a lethal threat?
Towns!

David Greene
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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 4th, 2014, 11:20 pm

Minneboy wrote:You don't see the Klu Klux Klan shutting down the freeway because they're not happy.
Did you just equate people fighting for the right of black men not to be killed to the fucking KU KLUX KLAN?!?

David Greene
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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 4th, 2014, 11:28 pm

maxbaby wrote:Why do you keep calling this "murder"? He attacked the officer, started fighting him and tried to grab his gun. I don't care if you are black, white or purple. YOU WILL BE SHOT!!!
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/lates ... s-away.ece
Leonard Pitts, Jr. wrote:With the first click, they should play video of Joseph Houseman, a 63-year-old white man who, back in May, stood with a rifle on a street in Kalamazoo, Mich. When police arrived, he refused to identify himself, grabbed his crotch, flipped them the bird and cursed. They talked him down in an encounter that lasted 40 minutes. Houseman was not arrested. The next day, he got his gun back.

With the second click, O’Reilly should play video of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old black boy who, last month, was playing with a realistic-looking toy gun in a Cleveland park. When police arrived, an officer jumped out of the car and shot him at point-blank range. There was no talking him down. Indeed, the entire encounter, from arrival to mortal wounds, took about two seconds.

It should be noted that anyone who waves a real — or real-looking — firearm in an encounter with police risks getting shot. We should also question who, if anyone, was irresponsible, inattentive or immature enough to allow Tamir to play — outside, yet — with that deadly toy. The resultant tragedy was all too easy to foresee.

That said, anyone looking to define white privilege would be well advised to ponder the 40 minutes police spent sorting things out with the white man and the two seconds it took them to shoot the black boy.
What Mike Brown did or did not do is irrelevant where the systemic racism issues are concerned, as was clearly demonstrated by Eric Garner. People are not protesting individual events. They are protesting a clear pattern of racist police brutality. That racism is so ingrained into the justice system it's likely that the officers don't even realize it's happening when they act. That is in fact a large part of the problem.

ECtransplant
US Bank Plaza
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Re: The Police

Postby ECtransplant » December 4th, 2014, 11:32 pm

This used to be a country that would allow the NSPA to march through Skokie because freedom of speech and assembly mattered to us. Now, we're the country where commute times trump black lives.

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
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Re: The Police

Postby Minneboy » December 4th, 2014, 11:36 pm

David Greene wrote:
Minneboy wrote:You don't see the Klu Klux Klan shutting down the freeway because they're not happy.
Did you just equate people fighting for the right of black men not to be killed to the fucking KU KLUX KLAN?!?
No did you? I used it as a polar opposite example but you see what you want. That's called a bubble.

David Greene
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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 4th, 2014, 11:52 pm

Your implication was that the Klan is more honorable because they didn't block a freeway.

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Anondson
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Re: The Police

Postby Anondson » December 4th, 2014, 11:55 pm

The Nation's has a take on police reform options.

http://m.thenation.com/article/191985-w ... fewer-cops

Snelbian
Rice Park
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Re: The Police

Postby Snelbian » December 5th, 2014, 7:43 am

Minneboy wrote:
David Greene wrote:
Minneboy wrote:You don't see the Klu Klux Klan shutting down the freeway because they're not happy.
Did you just equate people fighting for the right of black men not to be killed to the fucking KU KLUX KLAN?!?
No did you? I used it as a polar opposite example but you see what you want. That's called a bubble.
This isn't even clever trolling, it's just nudge-nudge-wink-wink race-baiting. "The Klan protests too! But they're nicer about it!" "Are you comparing them to civil rights marchers?" "NO, WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT, YOU RACIST?"

Seriously. Go fuck yourself.
Last edited by Snelbian on December 5th, 2014, 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Snelbian
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Re: The Police

Postby Snelbian » December 5th, 2014, 7:49 am

FISHMANPET wrote:
Minneboy wrote:Shutting down an interstate, for that matter protesting anywhere without a permit is plain illegal.
Murder is also illegal.

I don't really get this idea that if black people just ask nicely for their civil rights we'll be more than happy to hand them over, and they just haven't asked nicely enough yet.
There's a perception in white culture these days, decades removed from the events, that the Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks sitting on a bus, King giving a speech about nonviolence, and then everything was equal. That CIvil Rights happened because everyone was calm and respectful. They conveniently forget the "illegal" marches and protests and that whole people getting shot in the face thing.

If shutting down 35W for a few hours helps fix the police abuse problem in this country, it'll be the most useful thing that freeway has ever contributed to society.

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
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Re: The Police

Postby Minneboy » December 5th, 2014, 8:00 am

^^^^^Insane ranting.

mplsjaromir
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Re: The Police

Postby mplsjaromir » December 5th, 2014, 8:06 am

Some are killed by cops who get away with it, some are done in by a school full of white staff, a lack of resources, denied jobs, list goes on...

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Anondson
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Re: The Police

Postby Anondson » December 5th, 2014, 8:55 am

The NYTimes Room for Debate: should cases like Eric Garner call for a special prosecutor?

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... prosecutor

DFPegg
Metrodome
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Re: The Police

Postby DFPegg » December 5th, 2014, 9:35 am

From Facebook:

Million March MN: Million Artist Movement

Saturday, December 13 a 1 pm

Government Plaza
Minneapolis 55415

THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS.
BLACK LIVES MATTER.
WE NEED JUSTICE.

WE MUST NOT ONLY SHOW OUR POWER, BUT SHOW THAT THERE IS STILL HOPE FOR HUMANITY.

THIS MUST (WILL) HAPPEN IN EVERY MAJOR CITY, SO SPREAD THE WORD. FROM EAST TO WEST. INVITE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

THIS IS NOT TOO AMBITIOUS. THIS IS POSSIBLE.

WE MARCH.
TOGETHER.
AS ONE.

For organizations and individuals who want to get involved please message or post. Details and planning meetings coming soon.
Email: millionmarchminnesota@gmail.com

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Anondson
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Re: The Police

Postby Anondson » December 5th, 2014, 10:38 am

11 reforms, from a police oversight lawyer.

http://walterkatz.wordpress.com/2014/12 ... ce-reform/

at40man
Rice Park
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Re: The Police

Postby at40man » December 5th, 2014, 11:16 am

David Greene wrote:
a_tribe_called_chris wrote:They can try again or not but it is not somebody else's duty to carry the weight of that failure for them.
In my faith tradition, it absolutely, absolutely is.
Don't mix up your faith tradition with the duties of the state. I'm Catholic, and it is my experience that when it comes to actually helping people, my Church both historically and presently has been far more effective at helping the downtrodden than government programs and as such I pour my time/talent/treasure into my church rather than place the burden of duty on my government.

Government is for Legal Justice.
Church is for Social Justice.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 5th, 2014, 11:20 am

at40man wrote: Government is for Legal Justice.
Church is for Social Justice.
Absolutely cannot get behind this, not when laws and the government can take away people's civil rights. Government is absolutely a force for social justice, because it can be a force for social injustice.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: The Police

Postby FISHMANPET » December 5th, 2014, 11:30 am

Snelbian wrote: There's a perception in white culture these days, decades removed from the events, that the Civil Rights Movement was Rosa Parks sitting on a bus, King giving a speech about nonviolence, and then everything was equal. That CIvil Rights happened because everyone was calm and respectful. They conveniently forget the "illegal" marches and protests and that whole people getting shot in the face thing.

If shutting down 35W for a few hours helps fix the police abuse problem in this country, it'll be the most useful thing that freeway has ever contributed to society.
And for what it's worth, Rosa Parks was arrested for not giving up her seat.

Viktor Vaughn
US Bank Plaza
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Re: The Police

Postby Viktor Vaughn » December 5th, 2014, 11:37 am

at40man wrote:Don't mix up your faith tradition with the duties of the state. I'm Catholic, and it is my experience that when it comes to actually helping people, my Church both historically and presently has been far more effective at helping the downtrodden than government programs and as such I pour my time/talent/treasure into my church rather than place the burden of duty on my government.

Government is for Legal Justice.
Church is for Social Justice.
Check out Catholic Charities' annual report. In 2013 41% of their funding came from the government. Lutheran Social Services received $82M of their total revenues of $108M from the government (76%).

Charitable giving is important, but government does the heavy lifting.

David Greene
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Re: The Police

Postby David Greene » December 5th, 2014, 11:58 am

at40man wrote:
David Greene wrote:
a_tribe_called_chris wrote:They can try again or not but it is not somebody else's duty to carry the weight of that failure for them.
In my faith tradition, it absolutely, absolutely is.
Don't mix up your faith tradition with the duties of the state. I'm Catholic, and it is my experience that when it comes to actually helping people, my Church both historically and presently has been far more effective at helping the downtrodden than government programs and as such I pour my time/talent/treasure into my church rather than place the burden of duty on my government.

Government is for Legal Justice.
Church is for Social Justice.
I am also Catholic. The concept of social sin is exactly what should point us to government having a responsibility to promote social justice. Harry Flynn said it best, "a budget is a moral document."

Rich
Rice Park
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Re: The Police

Postby Rich » December 5th, 2014, 12:07 pm

Viktor Vaughn wrote:government does the heavy lifting.
Government also does the lifting more efficiently. Aren’t Social Security administrative costs less than 1% of expenditures? Churches can’t come close to that.


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