Breweries and Taprooms

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LakeCharles
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby LakeCharles » January 19th, 2017, 7:26 am

FISHMANPET wrote:I wonder if other cities with big craft brew scenes have it play out the same way we do, lots of taprooms that only server their own beer with food provided by an assortment of food trucks.
Denver and Portland are similar, just for two examples.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby mplsjaromir » January 19th, 2017, 9:24 am

Taprooms are a great addition to the city especially Northeast. Taprooms are better neighbors than your typical bar, they close relatively early and they do not serve high proof product. In my time going to taprooms I have yet to see any egregiously overserved patron. What I have seen in my area that taprooms have been responsible for a positive change in the quality and quantity of restaurants in the area. It makes sense, more people visit the area to try taprooms and invariably get hungry and see what else the area has to offer. There have been positive changes in even standard retail, which could be argued is helped by the presence of taprooms.

In general if someone is going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in specialty equipment to run a taproom they are probably going to be somewhat mindful of what they are doing. I have no idea how long will taprooms be en vouge, but for now they seem to be good.

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seamonster
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby seamonster » January 19th, 2017, 9:40 am

FISHMANPET, since beer is a no-go for you, have you tried Tattersall, Wander North, or Norseman distilleries?

Or Sociable Cider Werks for that matter?

Or is your issue predominantly the lack of on-site food at tap rooms?

I live in NE and love the tap room scene. That being said, I've been thinking we have reached peak for a couple of years now, but they keep on coming...

amiller92
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Re: Southside - General Topics

Postby amiller92 » January 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

FISHMANPET wrote:I wonder if breweries would be less likely to run tap rooms if they could just sell their beer to a real bar and be done with it? These breweries that do literally nothing but server their own beer have to be expensive. Sitting in prime real estate with high rents, limited functional operating hours, limited clientele, limited product, limited opportunity to raise check totals (all you can sell is beer!) it doesn't seem like a great business model if there were better alternatives available to them.
Clearly, this isn't your scene.

I'm sure some of this real estate has appreciated a lot in recent years, but pretty much every one of the breweries is in what not that long ago was vacant industrial space. In other words, cheap. Check out the location of 56 Brewing, for example, which used to be a different brewery that I can't remember that moved on up. Or the original Surly space. Or Steel Toe. The list goes on.

Moreover, these are breweries and would exist there anyway aside from their taproom. The "Surly Bill" that allowed them to sell their own product on site is just marginal revenue (some cost for servers, obvs).

This discussion started with Oaks Station Place, which of course would not fit the former-industrial-site model, but we also don't know whether the vision was just a tap room or something more. Day Block (food) and LynLake are probably higher rent, but again, that's not the norm.

amiller92
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Re: Southside - General Topics

Postby amiller92 » January 19th, 2017, 9:57 am

MNdible wrote:Brewpubs cannot sell their beer in retail locations, and must sell food. They are allowed to sell their own beer at a limited number of other locations, provided they are under the same ownership.
And they can only sell growlers at the brewery. Which is silly.

billhelm
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby billhelm » January 19th, 2017, 10:01 am

FISHMANPET wrote:I wonder if other cities with big craft brew scenes have it play out the same way we do, lots of taprooms that only server their own beer with food provided by an assortment of food trucks.
it depends on the laws. a lot of states let what we call "brewpubs" go to distribution and don't have as restrictive of production caps. They can also serve other companies products. So you end up with brewpubs that sell in stores and it removes the arbitrary demarcation between a brewery that serves food and a brewpub that serves other people's product. Food trucks are also involved as there are still many breweries that don't want to deal with the additional licensing/hassle of running a kitchen.
Last edited by billhelm on January 19th, 2017, 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

amiller92
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Re: Southside - General Topics

Postby amiller92 » January 19th, 2017, 10:02 am

FISHMANPET wrote: LynLake seems like it has to be a pretty expensive space, but maybe it's not.
You'd think the location would mean high rent, but then again I think the old theater it's in had been vacant for the long time.

xandrex
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby xandrex » January 19th, 2017, 10:13 am

I think one nice thing about the lack of kitchens and the arrangement of food trucks is that it can help support entrepreneurs in the food business that lack the capital to open a full restaurant. Plus, it gives more variety than a brewery kitchen could ever offer.

And I've gotta say, complaints of having to go outside to grab some food on a forum filled with Eric Dayton's target demo for Skyway Avoidance Society members is kind of ironic. ;)

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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby MNdible » January 19th, 2017, 10:39 am

I will say that taprooms without food should do a better job of partnering with local adjacent restaurants to coordinate food ordering and delivery for times when there isn't a food truck on hand, or if you don't like what the food truck is serving.

Obviously it's something of a special case, but the streamlined example of EastLake, which allows you to order and pay at their register for food walked over from Taco Cat, is something other places should work towards. Because there is a good reason why liquor licenses require food service.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby FISHMANPET » January 19th, 2017, 11:00 am

If I want to drink one of a handful of drinks and have literally no other option then it feels like I could do that better at home. If I want to drink beer and have food delivered to me I can do that at home as well. I guess it works for some people so good for them I guess.

Though maybe from an urbanism perspective, putting all these drinking establishments with poor food options into industrial areas with not great transit where people are likely to drive is maybe not a great idea. I think drinking places should be walkable neighborhood locations and the craft brewery in the cheap industrial area is kind of the antithesis of that. And if you have one located in a more popular area then it's inactive for a large portion of the day, which isn't great for urbanism.

I'm not a person that goes out a lot, but when I do there's more going on than just sitting at a table drinking. But apparently that's enough for a lot of people, or at least enough to keep all these establishments going.

I have been to Du Nord, because it's close to my house and relatively walkable (just have to walk across Hiawatha Ave, always a fun experience!) and I had a drink there I really enjoyed. But ultimately I'm left with the same problem where I have 4 or 5 drinks to choose from and have to hope the food truck is something I'll like. It's clearly not my scene, but I also just have a hard time understanding why it's anybody's scene. I guess the love of novel alcohols trumps all these other problems? Very confusing.

Now get off my lawn.

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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby Silophant » January 19th, 2017, 11:14 am

It is pretty frustrating when good breweries/distilleries open in locations that can basically only be accessed by car. Especially in Northgate's case, where they got off the ground in a tiny location, then got popular enough to move to a place specifically to open a taproom... and picked a warehouse off of NE Broadway. Technically transitable, but the 30 is pretty infrequent.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby seanrichardryan » January 19th, 2017, 11:21 am

Northgate moved to increase production, the tap room was always secondary to their business model. Why not take the 61?
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Silophant
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby Silophant » January 19th, 2017, 11:24 am

I was too much of a wimp to walk that far in the cold last time, but that would work in the summer, I guess.

jebr
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby jebr » January 19th, 2017, 12:22 pm

Doesn't the 30 have the same or better frequency than the 61 anyways?

LakeCharles
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby LakeCharles » January 19th, 2017, 12:39 pm

Most are quite accessible by transit.

Wild Mind, Harriet, Eastlake, LynLake, Town Hall, Lakes and Legends, Sisyphus, Clockwerks, Modist, Pryes, Fulton, Lake Monster, Surly, Indeed, Dangerous Man, 612, Bauhaus, Able, Fair State, Burning Bros, Summit, Bad Weather, Tin Whiskers, Flat Earth, and Sidhe are all within 2 blocks of a hi frequency bus line. That's a lot of choices.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby FISHMANPET » January 19th, 2017, 12:49 pm

Having accessed Surly by transit, I can definitively say it is accessible by transit only in the sense that you can draw a short line on a map from the light rail to the front door. There are no sidewalks connecting Surly to the light rail. The parking lot is massive. There is nothing in the area but industrial. I went in the middle of the day and it was not great, I can't imagine how awful the experience there would be at night. There is bike accessibility via the UMN transit way but that doesn't really connect you to much. I mean, yeah, it's not in the middle of the suburbs, but if we want to hold Surly up as an example of an easily accessible brewery to those not driving, then we've clearly set the bar very low.

talindsay
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby talindsay » January 19th, 2017, 12:50 pm

FISHMANPET wrote:Though maybe from an urbanism perspective, putting all these drinking establishments with poor food options into industrial areas with not great transit where people are likely to drive is maybe not a great idea. I think drinking places should be walkable neighborhood locations and the craft brewery in the cheap industrial area is kind of the antithesis of that.
This. It drives me crazy that drinking-only establishment are even *allowed* to have parking. It seems like drinking-only establishments should be required to be located where transit runs and taxis can be hailed, and parking should be strongly discouraged. Why actively foster drunk driving?

Scottie
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby Scottie » January 19th, 2017, 12:58 pm

It's been a couple months since I've been to Surly but i'm pretty sure if you count the blacktop multi use trail along the transit way as a sidewalk there are sidewalks the entire way.

xandrex
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby xandrex » January 19th, 2017, 1:01 pm

Yeah, despite their location in industrial areas, most of these places are fairly transit-able. Based on what I know about this board, however, the crowd leans heavily toward people in South Minneapolis—which means a fair number would require at least one transfer. Since most people aren’t going to a brewery alone, it’s not too difficult to split an Uber/Lyft. You can also, like many of my friends, have a single beer and still enjoy the company and an hour later be good to drive.

As for why to go to a brewery: If you want to socialize with friends and there’s good beer…why not? Many of the breweries don’t distribute, so if you want Dangerous Man’s Peanut Butter Porter, you need to go there (or pick up a growler). Others have a great location: LynLake’s rooftop is great in three seasons and they coordinate food with local places to be delivered straight to you. I suppose many of my social situations involve (small amounts) of alcohol, but sometimes it’s just nice to get out of the house and catch up with folks…a brewery allows that.

amiller92
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Re: Breweries and Taprooms

Postby amiller92 » January 19th, 2017, 1:05 pm

MNdible wrote: Because there is a good reason why liquor licenses require food service.
Apparently I'm in an argumentative mood today: no there isn't.

That is, I'm skeptical that having food available means that patrons will get any less drunk. And I think craft brewery taprooms that don't have food are decent evidence for that (or I'm old and leave them before anything gets messy, but I don't think so).


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