Homeless tent city along the Hiawatha Bike Trail?

[Mooglemuffins]

Does anyone know anything about this? I've noticed, for quite literally the past year as I bike to work up the Hiawatha Bike Trail that there is a pretty consistent camp under or near the bridges where 94 passes over or next to the community peace gardens. I was honestly surprised last winter when the set of 3 tents or so that were set up next to the gardens stuck it out the entire winter long. Come Spring, on morning I biked past and all the tents were gone and it looked like the little area where they had been had been driven over by some heavy machinery.

While the tents in that spot didn't go back up for a while, it appeared the people living around there moved up right under the ledge below the bridge at the top of the concrete slopes. They used various blankets and materials to construct a bit of privacy around the ledge areas where they slept. As the summer has gone on it has gone from about 3 people up under the bridge to about 15 it seems. These days it's complete with groups of tents around the base of the supporting pillars, strung up tarps, and rather large amounts of garbage and random parts of broken bikes strewn around the area.

Anyone know what the story is with this little area being such a popular spot? I'm impressed that it has been able to consistently stick around this long without constantly having the cops or the city coming after them.

[seanrichardryan]

I saw a tent in a planter box next to the MNHS a stone's throw from Dorothy Day.
The poor and homeless have to go somewhere, whether that be subsidized housing or quiet corners of the city where they can peacefully exist.

[David Greene]

I've long been angry/frustrated about homeless people getting kicked out of lobbies, skyways, etc., especially in winter.

Is it at all possible the city could pass some kind of ordinance forbidding this except in cases of bad behavior? Most if not all of the downtown buildings have security staff, right? Certainly the large ones do. So the behavior could be monitored.

I mean, who really cares if someone is sleeping, playing cards, etc. if they're not bothering anyone? Happens in the parks all the time.

Of course property rights, blah blah blah. But it seems to me businesses, especially big businesses, have a responsibility owing to the large public subsidies sent their way. Perhaps the ordinance could forbid expulsion from lobbies in certain types of buildings (large office, for example). It's not like large office building lobbies are great public spaces or are used for any productive work at all.

Yes, this would be a dramatic change. It would also be humane and maybe light the way for other cities.

[amiller92]

I to have watched his grouping grow and contract and relocate. Although think at least a few people have been living under the overpass for as long as I can remember.

I've never personally observed any real problems from the group, but do wonder about how more vulnerable trail users feel about safety, especially at night.

[Tiller]

A housing-first policy to eliminate chronic homelessness would also be pretty great.

[thom]

I had to dodge some discarded needles yesterday in the evening while biking home around that part of the trail. Would be nice if somebody could get in there to at least make sure the people involved have necessary disposal vessels for trash, etc.

[talindsay]

I've long been angry/frustrated about homeless people getting kicked out of lobbies, skyways, etc., especially in winter.

Is it at all possible the city could pass some kind of ordinance forbidding this except in cases of bad behavior? Most if not all of the downtown buildings have security staff, right? Certainly the large ones do. So the behavior could be monitored.

I mean, who really cares if someone is sleeping, playing cards, etc. if they're not bothering anyone? Happens in the parks all the time.

Of course property rights, blah blah blah. But it seems to me businesses, especially big businesses, have a responsibility owing to the large public subsidies sent their way. Perhaps the ordinance could forbid expulsion from lobbies in certain types of buildings (large office, for example). It's not like large office building lobbies are great public spaces or are used for any productive work at all.

Yes, this would be a dramatic change. It would also be humane and maybe light the way for other cities.

Agreed. I think it's interesting that Metro Transit seems to be the government agency that de facto ends up providing shelter for the homeless, and ends up being the most humane about it. At least we do have one agency stepping up, but it would be a lot better if it were something more suited to dealing with the issue. When the only tool you have is a hammer...

[MattW]

I also noticed the other day that the "village" at the Lyndale-Hennepin intersection, under the 94 on ramp, appears to be cleared.

[MNdible]

I also noticed the other day that the "village" at the Lyndale-Hennepin intersection, under the 94 on ramp, appears to be cleared.

There was still a grill and a bunch of chairs and occupants as of lunchtime today.

With regards to requiring private businesses to let homeless people hang out in their lobbies... really? Homelessness is a societal problem that should be dealt with at a societal level. Foisting this responsibility on a handful of businesses who happen to be located close to homeless shelters doesn't seem fair at all.

[David Greene]

What's "fair" about subsidizing the construction of buildings to house said businesses? The city subsidized the space so it seems perfectly "fair" for the city to get some benefit from it. Homelessness is a societal problem and thus the structures of society (i.e. government) is responsible for handling it. Short of building and operating shelters, we need to look at other options. Non-profits cannot carry the whole load.

If you have other ideas I'm all ears. I'm trying to think of solutions.

[MNdible]

I don't have a silver bullet for this, but since chronic homelessness is usually tied to substance abuse and/or mental illness, I'm not sure that letting people loiter in a lobby is really helping to solve the problem.

Unless the problem is that people operate businesses near homeless shelters.

I don't mean to be glib about this, but short of building and operating shelters that offer real support services, you're not really helping.

[David Greene]

Not helping even in winter? We need to prioritize keeping people safe. If shelters are full people literally have nowhere to turn.

"Loitering" is a very loaded term. Is it loitering to sleep in a relatively safe place? To seek shelter from weather? To play cards?

The city should also open park & rec centers, etc. to keep people sheltered. They do things like that when the cold is super extreme but we need to treat people like human beings, not animals only to be sheltered in the worst of the worst conditions. Hell, farm animals get treated better than homeless human beings.

The city alone is not going to solve substance abuse and mental illness. But we have to do whatever we can.

I'm not being glib either. I honestly see using lobbies as shelters as a real, if temporary solution.

[Mooglemuffins]

I've never personally observed any real problems from the group, but do wonder about how more vulnerable trail users feel about safety, especially at night.

Yeah me neither, never ran into any issues all the times I've biked past, besides the smell sometimes if there has been a lot of garbage piling up. They're either just hanging out talking to each other, or coming up the trail with a shopping cart of stuff. But I can certainly understand the concern at night walking or biking past a camp of people under a highway.

Not helping even in winter? We need to prioritize keeping people safe. If shelters are full people literally have nowhere to turn.

"Loitering" is a very loaded term. Is it loitering to sleep in a relatively safe place? To seek shelter from weather? To play cards?

The city should also open park & rec centers, etc. to keep people sheltered. They do things like that when the cold is super extreme but we need to treat people like human beings, not animals only to be sheltered in the worst of the worst conditions. Hell, farm animals get treated better than homeless human beings.

The city alone is not going to solve substance abuse and mental illness. But we have to do whatever we can.

I'm not being glib either. I honestly see using lobbies as shelters as a real, if temporary solution.

I wholeheartedly agree. Like I said, even throughout the entire winter biking past or going past on the train I would see them there in their tents. It was fucking cold out. Hell, once I even saw someone sleeping (or trying to) in one of the lean-to sheds in the peace gardens. They had some cruddy blanket and were huddled up to try to keep out out of the wind. Society is failing these people if it can't even offer them a roof of some sort in the dead of winter.

[Tiller]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First

Housing First is a relatively recent innovation in human service programs and social policy regarding treatment of the homeless and is an alternative to a system of emergency shelter/transitional housing progressions. Rather than moving homeless individuals through different "levels" of housing, whereby each level moves them closer to "independent housing" (for example: from the streets to a public shelter, and from a public shelter to a transitional housing program, and from there to their own apartment in the community), Housing First moves the homeless individual or household immediately from the streets or homeless shelters into their own apartments.

Housing First approaches are based on the concept that a homeless individual or household's first and primary need is to obtain stable housing, and that other issues that may affect the household can and should be addressed once housing is obtained. In contrast, many other programs operate from a model of "housing readiness" — that is, that an individual or household must address other issues that may have led to the episode of homelessness prior to entering housing.

The "Evidence and Outcomes" section is full of examples of this being highly successful. Apparently Minneapolis has some version of a housing first policy (according to the Wikipedia page), though it might need some beefing up since there are still problems with homelessness.

[amiller92]

If shelters are full people literally have nowhere to turn.

I'm really talking about an area I don't know that much about, but I'm not sure that the issue is that shelters are full. I suspect just as often the shelters have rules that some don't want to follow so they go elsewhere. If you spend any time in the Minneapolis skyways, for example, you probably have seen people who appear to live there.

I'm highly partial to "housing first" solutions, however.

[RailBaronYarr]

I'm not sure the extent to which most office towers in downtown received much subsidy (whatever that term means), or if they've on-net paid it back since being built and paying millions in property taxes (plus corporate/income/sales taxes generated by the businesses inside). But if we're going to accept that any subsidy is justification for forcing a private building owner to house people because it's a worthy societal goal, then by golly we should be looking at placing homeless people in the empty bedrooms or basements with couches of the thousands of single family homes in this city receiving a mortgage interest tax deduction, property tax deduction, homestead exemption, etc.

Business/building owner complaints about *most* homeless people are overblown *most* of the time. These people deserve not only housing but care and treatment. I agree with MNdible that lobby shelters aren't the best way to provide that. Please raise my property taxes whatever it takes to issue some net debt bonds to build as many housing first solutions as it takes.

[FranklinAveFixation]

None of this will make a dent in the camp OP is talking about, they'd much prefer to shoot up in that camp vs. crystal court..
Maybe someone can donate some air mattresses to David Greene and they can crash in his living room??
BTW, there's been people camping in that vicinity for at least 30 years.

[SurlyLHT]

Looks like they're fully established under the bridge with tents now, instead of adjacent. I saw them waking up this morning on my morning commute. Honestly, they seem more like drifters than the average homeless person. They seem to have a bit more means than the average homeless group. We can't assume they really want a shelter and I wouldn't be surprised that if they had subsidized housing that they wouldn't come back to hang out with their friends during the day. Related has anyone heard about the opioid crisis increasing homelessness? People kicking out their now unemployable family members

[David Greene]

We can't assume they really want a shelter

This is an important point. There are certainly groups of people who have no desire for permanent shelter. They want to live and sleep outside, with or without tents.

[NickP]

Could a shelter-like camp ground be made for this population? That would be cool I think. It would be a open lot, but maintained, and with restrooms and showers, and staff. Essentially it would be a shelter, but with no roof.