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JMS9

Re: Downtown Crime

Postby JMS9 » October 21st, 2012, 7:39 pm

Most people that say "stay away from _____" have never been there themselves and are only reacting to the hysteria created by the media on TV or the newspaper. For example, I live half a block from North High. It's hardly South Chicago or Compton. It's not Wayzata either, but let's not overreact. I hear gunshots from time to time but living near 4th Precinct, near the school, with a very nice park....not exactly the criteria gangbangers and thugs gravitate to.

Now, north of Broadway to about Lowry.....yeah, there's an area you don't want to be in if you can help it. Most murders & shootings happen between Lowry and Folwell. The shot spotter map is very active in that 7 block stretch.

Civilization

Re: Downtown Crime

Postby Civilization » October 22nd, 2012, 11:22 pm

I remember when I first moved to Loring Park and bar closing was 1am and many bars closed at midnight.

It wasnt as obnixious as it is today.

I wish bar closing was 1 am again. It would drive out neighbors who binge drink and host anywhere between 2-15 binge drunk friends.

I am old at 38, I prefer to drink in moderation with a great meal.

Unfortunately the expansion of bar hours and clubs downtown took livibility north of 22nd out in large chunks.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby mplsjaromir » October 23rd, 2012, 3:43 pm

Bars and sidewalks should close at 9 pm. You all have heard the saying, "nothing good happens after 9 pm".

JMS9

Re: Downtown Crime

Postby JMS9 » October 23rd, 2012, 8:40 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:Bars and sidewalks should close at 9 pm. You all have heard the saying, "nothing good happens after 9 pm".
What are we, Paris under the Nazi's?

Civilization

Re: Downtown Crime

Postby Civilization » October 23rd, 2012, 8:52 pm

mplsjaromir, so you've called 911 and requested the services the best of the MPD has to offer heh?

This summer I made a special effort to not go after dark due to crime and the professionals who manage crime.

Banning those under 21 from bars and clubs, plus those places closing down at 1 am would make downtown so much more liveable.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby FISHMANPET » October 23rd, 2012, 9:06 pm

This just sounds like a bunch of people who hate fun.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby mplsjaromir » October 23rd, 2012, 10:05 pm

Yeah, no one wants to live downtown because its unlivable. Weird how a bunch of apartments are going up and stuff.

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Nathan
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby Nathan » October 24th, 2012, 4:11 pm

Civilization wrote:mplsjaromir, so you've called 911 and requested the services the best of the MPD has to offer heh?

This summer I made a special effort to not go after dark due to crime and the professionals who manage crime.

Banning those under 21 from bars and clubs, plus those places closing down at 1 am would make downtown so much more liveable.
I argue that rather than kick them out, the bars be more responsible for who they serve. When I was 18 I went to a lot of 18+ nights and it meant a lot to have somewhere to go. And in regards to the type of people/culture that include a lot of violence... it's just going to happen somewhere else (probably in Minneapolis) and still look bad...

This video makes me sad and happy... I think it's less about kicking people out... IMO...

[BBvideo 425,350]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ArpyjcMVA[/BBvideo]

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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby John » October 24th, 2012, 8:19 pm

^^^That video is revealing about many of the youth hanging out downtown. They have no self confidence and lack any sense of purpose to their life. I find it interesting that all these downtown corporations are hiring people from other countries( like India) to work in skilled jobs, yet we have all these American kids running around with no hope for the future. Why do none of our politicians ever truly address this growing crisis of our youth? :?

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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby John » October 24th, 2012, 8:25 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:Yeah, no one wants to live downtown because its unlivable. Weird how a bunch of apartments are going up and stuff.
That unlivability explains why almost 40 000 people live downtown, and approx 6-7 thousand housing units have been built over the last 10 years. And with Lunds and Whole Foods opening up , you know our downtown is really going downhill!! ;)
Last edited by John on October 25th, 2012, 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

twincitizen
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby twincitizen » October 24th, 2012, 8:37 pm

Image

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Nick
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby Nick » October 24th, 2012, 8:42 pm

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/cped/metp/cped_stepup

And then at the end, free college for everyone:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/promise/index.htm

You can dump money on it until the cows come home, and we do. MPS spends a lot more per pupil than Edina Public Schools. Almost 50 percent more.

It's not for lack of effort. Lack of government and institutional effort isn't the issue. Without getting too deep and philosophical, I read just as many Huffington Post human interest articles as everyone else, and the sad stories are always very sad. But they tend to always have something buried about halfway through, in the last half of a sentence in the middle of a paragraph, about the two kids the person in the story had by age nineteen, or the decade long drug habit, or the four felonies.

I'm skeptical of anyone who casually mentions being kicked out of several schools, but the kid in the video is right when he says it starts young. If there's no one around to convince a seven year old that he should probably want to do well in school, it's pretty unlikely that he's going to convince himself of it in time for it to matter.

The op-ed just kind of happened spontaneously, I just mostly wanted everyone to be aware of the STEP-UP program and the Minneapolis Promise.

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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby John » October 24th, 2012, 10:30 pm

The problem and solutions for perpetual poverty, crime, and violence are very complex. But I'm happy Minneapolis has some programs to help at least a few kids break out of the cycle of poverty. The problem is a young person has to have the self confidence and motivation to make those programs work for him (or her). That takes either a responsible parent or good adult role model to help instill this feeling in a child. Not nearly enough of them to go around!

But I still wonder why we bring in so many people from other countries to fill good paying middle class jobs when we have serious domestic issues with unemployment and poverty? It doesn't make sense to me.

helsinki
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby helsinki » October 25th, 2012, 6:42 am

Nick wrote: You can dump money on it until the cows come home, and we do. MPS spends a lot more per pupil than Edina Public Schools. Almost 50 percent more.

It's not for lack of effort. Lack of government and institutional effort isn't the issue.
Completely agree.

Apparently, Finland spends way less per pupil than the US on education, yet has arguably the best public schools in the world. Check out one explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kK6u7AsJF8 (skip first 20 minutes or so - it's just introductory fluff).

High standards for teachers (MA required), no standardized testing (by law, it is illegal for schools to give students letter or number grades before the 5th grade), paradoxically fewer teaching hours (teachers spend more time collaborating with parents, other teachers, developing more specialized curricula), high emphasis placed on student health (meals, health care), recognition of music/arts as core subjects for child development, etc. It's worth a listen.

One thing he doesn't mention (but that Finland gets high marks for elsewhere) is humane school architecture. For those familiar with the insides of MPLS public schools, this should be obvious. I mean, South High School doesn't have any windows. Seriously.

Finland (and Edina to a lesser extent) benefits from a degree of cultural and socioeconomic homogeneity that promotes trust in relationships. Schools are an excellent microcosm of community trust. MPLS, for better or worse, is one of the most diverse cities in the state - both culturally AND socioeconomically (still not that diverse - it's over 2/3 white, hardly LA). We always immediately think of race, but the city itself is probably also home to both the richest and the poorest people in MSP. Edina is affluent, sure. But it's no Lake of the Isles.

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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby VAStationDude » October 25th, 2012, 7:28 am

The issues of poverty go way beyond what the City of Minneapolis, MPS and foundations can do. Child poverty in America is at a staggering 23%. Canada and other peer nations, despite being less wealthy, has a much lower rate. The notion poverty relief has been adequately addressed is laughable. In the middle of a very hotly contested presidential campaign the left wing candidate rarely mentions the subject and the right wing candidate and his running mate openly advocate cutting a very successful anti poverty program - the earned income tax credit. Peer nations demonstrate that poverty can be drastically reduced. In addition to income support, simple ideas like putting nurses into poor families homes a few hours a week would pay major dividends as the child goes through school, enters the workforce and has children of their own.

This issue is very complicated and the solutions do not lie entirely with government. Cultural changes are also needed. Teenage sexuality is extremely taboo in this country despite a highly sexualized culture. Accepting that teen sex will happen and trying to prevent pregnancy would drastically reduce teen births. Attitudes towards education among the poor need to change. Again we're taking about a huge problem that extends way beyond this board and minneapolis saint paul.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby FISHMANPET » October 25th, 2012, 10:12 am

John wrote: But I still wonder why we bring in so many people from other countries to fill good paying middle class jobs when we have serious domestic issues with unemployment and poverty? It doesn't make sense to me.
Are you serious? You have no idea why we bring in college educated people to fill middle class jobs when we could be giving them to poor people who may not even have a high school degree?

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woofner
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby woofner » October 25th, 2012, 11:12 am

VAStationDude wrote:The issues of poverty go way beyond what the City of Minneapolis, MPS and foundations can do. Child poverty in America is at a staggering 23%. Canada and other peer nations, despite being less wealthy, has a much lower rate. The notion poverty relief has been adequately addressed is laughable. In the middle of a very hotly contested presidential campaign the left wing candidate rarely mentions the subject and the right wing candidate and his running mate openly advocate cutting a very successful anti poverty program - the earned income tax credit. Peer nations demonstrate that poverty can be drastically reduced. In addition to income support, simple ideas like putting nurses into poor families homes a few hours a week would pay major dividends as the child goes through school, enters the workforce and has children of their own.

This issue is very complicated and the solutions do not lie entirely with government. Cultural changes are also needed. Teenage sexuality is extremely taboo in this country despite a highly sexualized culture. Accepting that teen sex will happen and trying to prevent pregnancy would drastically reduce teen births. Attitudes towards education among the poor need to change. Again we're taking about a huge problem that extends way beyond this board and minneapolis saint paul.
Actually I think most of these problems can be addressed by requiring concrete instead of stick frames. Also minimizing cementitious panels on exteriors. Finally, skateboarding.
"Who rescued whom!"

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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby seanrichardryan » October 25th, 2012, 11:22 am

Yes.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

John
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Re: Downtown Crime

Postby John » October 25th, 2012, 12:24 pm

redisciple wrote:Actually I think most of these problems can be addressed by requiring concrete instead of stick frames. Also minimizing cementitious panels on exteriors. Finally, skateboarding.
Remember :this is the "anything goes " thread and people are using it appropriately.

Civilization

Re: Downtown Crime

Postby Civilization » October 28th, 2012, 10:14 am

fotoapparatic,

Those businesses are there to make a buck, not to be social philanthropists. And its obvious these businesses are not critical of who they serve.

40,000 of those who live downtown are either aging babyboomer with $$$, families in transition or subsidized housing or guppies just graduating/transplants who flee minneapolis due to parking.

The population who comes downtown to party and commit crime do not live downtown.

You guys talk about youth fun. This youth fun is definately a deterent to attracting monied boomers who might buy condos downtown.

Guess whats going to win?

Kinda surprised the boomer gestapo in these condos didnt stop Chief Dolan in his tracks when he eliminated the youth crime unit.


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