Crime

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EOst
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Re: Crime

Postby EOst » October 8th, 2016, 4:31 pm

Shootings are up city-wide, yes, but that increase is mostly driven by a rise in shootings over North (not to diminish that problem). Crime stats in the 1st precinct (downtown) are fairly stable, and in many cases down from the numbers reported in '05.

I mean, I don't think anyone here would suggest that crime doesn't exist downtown. But (a) that's true in every city and (b) this is a societal problem, not a Minneapolis one. You won't get rid of drug dealers and gangs without state and federal drug policy changes. You won't stop random handgun shootings without federal gun control. The tools that Minneapolis or the state have to end these things are pretty weak. Even if Minneapolis were to hire a new officer just to stand around those Warehouse District clubs at night, there would still be shootings. Even if more cameras were placed at some intersections, people would still deal drugs where it's lucrative to do so. Even if enforcement were stepped up, you'd end up with new people on the streets + more people in prison. Sure, we could probably imagine extreme versions of this which would have some impact--cameras everywhere, police on every corner, stop-and-frisk--but at a considerable cost both monetary and social. I wouldn't make that trade.

This country has "talked about" crime continuously for the last century. No one's yet found the "something to be done." If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it. But otherwise it's simply what it is.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Crime

Postby FISHMANPET » October 8th, 2016, 5:47 pm

The things that may have the most impact that the city can actually do are things it's working on right now like paid sick time, minimum wage, and other workers issue.

When real work pays well and reliably, there's less incentive to engage in illegal activities.

Silophant
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Re: Crime

Postby Silophant » October 8th, 2016, 7:52 pm

Former Councilman Dan Cohen has a plan!

It is.. excitingly dystopian.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Downtown Minneapolis General Topics & Development Map

Postby amiller92 » October 10th, 2016, 9:55 am

mnmike wrote:certainly worse than the entertainment districts/downtowns in our peer cities.
Certainly? You've looked at the numbers for other cities and compared them? No? Okay.

I looked a bit to see if I could tell if we've had shooting/stabbing free weekends but wasn't going to spend a lot of time on it. I just played briefly with the crime map, where, yeah, there were lots of weekends without any assaults/attempted murders in the area.

mnmike
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Re: Crime

Postby mnmike » October 10th, 2016, 11:29 am

Nope, but I have been to many, I travel fairly often...certainly a different feel than the Minneapolis entertainment district. I have a friend that just moved to 4marq from downtown Portland, OR...He can't believe the amount of gang related activity and gunfire he has heard...not to mention several major incidents like the recent shootings. It's embarrassing...whether you want to admit it or not...people notice, people don't feel safe...it isn't just me or something I am making up. I guess I am not understanding your argument? Is your stance that our crime is just as bad as our peer cities, and some weekends there aren't shootings or assaults, so everything is fine and crime is not an issue? Okay then...if you are happy with the current status quo, good for you. I am not. It does not feel safe...and the general concensus among local businesses is that it is not getting better, and it does not feel safe to them either. It seems like you are just trying to brush it off.."oh it is just as bad elsewhere...the numbers don't look much worse". Well that doesn't do anything to help what most agree (including the mayor and city council) is a major issue, does it?

Aslo, I agree with what Fishman said there...

seanrichardryan
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Re: Crime

Postby seanrichardryan » October 10th, 2016, 11:37 am

Ancedata. Attended a wedding two weeks ago... Chatted with some guests who were from Boston staying at the Loews. They wondered if the hotel and neighborhood was safe based on the the Friday evening they had arrived. They also worried about walking to dinner and getting down to the river safely to go running.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby mnmike » October 10th, 2016, 11:41 am

Sad, isn't it? This is the impression of visitors....I guess I am probably more aware of these impressions because I work in hotels. I hear about the safety concerns of guests often. What do I hear most about the hennepin ave area? "kind of a sketchy area, isn't it?"

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby amiller92 » October 10th, 2016, 12:20 pm

mnmike wrote:.it isn't just me or something I am making up.
No, it's something you're extrapolating from anecdotes. Which isn't exactly a new thing.
Is your stance that our crime is just as bad as our peer cities
I don't really know what crime is like in our peer cities, because I've not looked into it. Clearly you haven't either, but you're sticking with the claim.
and some weekends there aren't shootings or assaults
My argument was that your factual claim was wrong and that we should be wary of crime hysteria. Not least because it's people of color who suffer the consequences.
so everything is fine and crime is not an issue?
Honestly, I don't really think "crime" is particularly an issue. I don't think a small uptick is something to get particularly worked up about, as these things are actually pretty rare and lumpy.

I do think the perception of crime is an issue and the mayor and police chief have sought to address that. I don't think there's any value at all in further stoking the existing fear of the young people of color who you might encounter in those areas.
It does not feel safe
Do you even understand what the problem with this statement is?

grant1simons2
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Re: Crime

Postby grant1simons2 » October 10th, 2016, 12:27 pm

How the hell does gun violence and people being shot and killed on our streets not affect you?

Adam, you're making way too many assumptions right now.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby amiller92 » October 10th, 2016, 12:46 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:Adam, you're making way too many assumptions right now.
Perhaps

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby mnmike » October 10th, 2016, 1:46 pm

Yes, seeing guns, knives and drug deals on the street in broad daylight as I have on multiple occasions this summer does not make me feel safe, and is not something that is just "part of living in the city"...do you not think most people would feel unsafe seeing these things? My friend being locked in a bar on Hennepin on 2 occasions relatively recently due to gun fire does not make me feel safe, and that is more than just perception. And yes he is making a lot of assumptions. I am not trying to make many assumptions, but it seems like maybe he is not downtown often to witness these things and what goes on? Apparently everything is hunky dory in his view...so great. Fine, carry on. The rest of us can worry for him.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby amiller92 » October 10th, 2016, 2:05 pm

mnmike wrote:I am not trying to make many assumptions, but it seems like maybe he is not downtown often to witness these things and what goes on?
There was a guy smoking a joint at the bus stop at 5th St a bit ago. Scary.

I'm downtown all the time, although admittedly not as often at night as when I lived two blocks off Hennepin a year ago.

EOst
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Re: Crime

Postby EOst » October 10th, 2016, 2:30 pm

Downtown Portland may indeed have fewer of the things you're talking about (though it's hard to compare--wonder if someone's done a study?). It is also, in general, a very different place than downtown Minneapolis, in built environment, residential population, economic profile, and tourism appeal. These things are not unconnected. Even so, your odds here of getting hit by a left-turning driver are still far greater than of getting shot, probably even at 2 in the morning.

A handful of developments (some already in progress, like the Nicollet Hotel block) will help add eyes and reduce the dead zones. Some of the problem nightclubs and bars will eventually shut down, and some already have. I have no doubt the MPD pays attention to crime statistics. I don't think anyone disagrees that crime exists downtown (though we may disagree about its effects). Is there something to be said about that besides pointing it out?

maxbaby
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Re: Crime

Postby maxbaby » October 10th, 2016, 2:52 pm

EOst wrote: Sure, we could probably imagine extreme versions of this which would have some impact--cameras everywhere, police on every corner, stop-and-frisk--but at a considerable cost both monetary and social. I wouldn't make that trade.
If that's what it takes to make it safe down there. Then yes.

MNdible
is great.
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Re: Crime

Postby MNdible » October 10th, 2016, 3:08 pm

Stop-and-frisk is obviously problematic, but I don't think that I'd object to more cameras downtown. And having police on every corner ought to be bare minimum at bar close downtown, given the pandemonium (best case) that regularly occurs.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: June 2nd, 2012, 11:01 am

Re: Crime

Postby mnmike » October 10th, 2016, 4:21 pm

As Eost said...I too am hoping some of the new developments will help by adding eyes to the street, and activity. Particularly the AC Marriott... We will see.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Crime

Postby seanrichardryan » October 10th, 2016, 4:55 pm

Lets get real here. This type of crime happens, windows and sidewalk cafes be damned. The most recent shooting happened in front of the police station.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

mnmike
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby mnmike » October 11th, 2016, 8:03 am

True. Are there usually police in that sub station?

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby amiller92 » October 11th, 2016, 9:11 am

It's the 1st Precinct, not a substation.

kirby96
Union Depot
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Re: Crime

Postby kirby96 » October 11th, 2016, 9:35 am

seanrichardryan wrote:Lets get real here. This type of crime happens, windows and sidewalk cafes be damned. The most recent shooting happened in front of the police station.

Right on. Love it or leave it, I say.


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