Crime

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mplsjaromir
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Re: Crime

Postby mplsjaromir » October 11th, 2016, 10:24 am

FBI accused of over reliance on paid informants, targeting vulnerable populations via entrapment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/ ... rror-plots

acs
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Re: Crime

Postby acs » October 11th, 2016, 11:06 am

We get it dude, you hate the cops.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Crime

Postby mplsjaromir » October 11th, 2016, 1:31 pm

I dislike authority figures who abuse their power. I likely disagree with those who think the number of police who abuse their power is 0%.

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
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Re: Crime

Postby mattaudio » October 12th, 2016, 9:29 am

I figure acs' comment was sarcasm, no?

acs
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Re: Crime

Postby acs » October 12th, 2016, 9:55 am

Not really, just oversimplified, as mplsjaromir pointed out.

seanrichardryan
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Re: Crime

Postby seanrichardryan » June 28th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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VacantLuxuries
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Crime

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 28th, 2017, 3:05 pm

So can anyone write for CityPages, or is it more of a deal where if you're friends with someone who works there, they'll let you write things? I'm just wondering how they're consistently bad at journalism.

acs
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby acs » June 28th, 2017, 3:11 pm

How was that bad journalism? Besides the fact that you didn't agree with the premise of the article. Because what I read had interviews and quotes from half a dozen different sources all the way from homeless people up to former CMs.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Crime

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 28th, 2017, 3:13 pm

Also, the author's previous article (also published today) is a puff piece about how great Savage, MN is.
How was that bad journalism? Besides the fact that you didn't agree with the premise of the article. Because what I read had interviews and quotes from half a dozen different sources all the way from homeless people up to former CMs.
Because when you bury the actual crime data in an article filled with anecdata, you decided your thesis and went fishing for content to back it up.

BoredAgain
Landmark Center
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Location: Lyndale Neighborhood

Re: Crime

Postby BoredAgain » June 28th, 2017, 3:24 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
June 28th, 2017, 3:13 pm
Also, the author's previous article (also published today) is a puff piece about how great Savage, MN is.
How was that bad journalism? Besides the fact that you didn't agree with the premise of the article. Because what I read had interviews and quotes from half a dozen different sources all the way from homeless people up to former CMs.
Because when you bury the actual crime data in an article filled with anecdata, you decided your thesis and went fishing for content to back it up.
The thesis is that it "Feels Different". There is no data that supports or refutes that idea. They did include the information that there is no actual rise in crime rates in the actual data. Many of the anecdata that supports the thesis isn't about actual crime. Asking people for money isn't a crime. Swearing on the street isn't a crime. Harassing people walking down the street with lewd language isn't a crime. None of these things show up in crime statistics. They do affect "mood" of a space and not for the better.

That said, I do agree that many of the concerns laid out in the article are overblown. Drunken idiots are going to get robbed and that has always been the case.

Also, if you are looking for "good" journalism, then why are you reading the City Pages? They are useful for some things, but not for hard-hitting pieces about downtown crime.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Crime

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 28th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Bad journalism that fits people's preconceived notions of an issue gets shared. It's somewhat of an issue as of late.

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FISHMANPET
IDS Center
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Re: Crime

Postby FISHMANPET » June 28th, 2017, 3:59 pm

I would have thought, after the media spent months framing everything Trump from a "both sides are bad" angle, that collectively the journalism field would figure out that it takes more than not saying false things to be "good" journalism.

Reporting facts and what people said is not a neutral position, like many journalists think it is. There's so many editorial choices around those things that impact the tone. For example that was a longer piece, if you read halfway through and didn't finish it, you'd never get to the part where the actual crime statistics are reported. A reporter also has a choice in who they talk to about a topic, and what they include from those interviews. They may not include them at all if the interview doesn't fit their narrative (I've had this happen when I was interviewed by a MN Daily reporter about new apartments around campus). The Southwest Journal used to be pretty bad about who they chose to talk to about new development issues, but after enough roasting on Twitter Dylan Thomas, the editor, is getting better about that.

And finally, it's really hard to evaluate a piece like this in a vacuum, without looking at other pieces the author has written. Cory Z has written countless sensational stories about local development that, while not saying anything incorrect, leave out enough information you could drive a truck through the gaps.

Sometimes alt-weeklys have good journalism. Without the focus on day to day happenings that a local daily would, they have time to dig into issues a little deeper. For example, there's a great 2009 City pages piece about Lisa Goodman. The topic of this particular article (feeling of safety downtown) is one that an alt weekly is really positioned to cover well.

As has been said before, it's kinda clear that Cory had his thesis in mind and worked from there. Just because he didn't say anything false doesn't make it good. He should have started with a question and worked from there, rather than starting with the answer and working backwards. I don't go downtown enough to really be able to say one way or the other if the conclusion of the piece is right or wrong, but it's pretty clear that Cory never really tried to figure out if his conclusion was right or wrong.

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Nick
Capella Tower
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Location: Loring Park, Minneapolis

Re: Crime

Postby Nick » June 28th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Image

BoredAgain
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Location: Lyndale Neighborhood

Re: Crime

Postby BoredAgain » June 28th, 2017, 4:17 pm

Sorry. I have a tendency to argue with people for no apparent reason.

Are we just disagreeing about how bad this article was and why? Because I do agree it was bad. I just agree it was bad because it was clearly biased and buried the actual data that refutes the argument (I read it all, and knew about crime rates anyway) and not as bad in that it actually talked to a variety of people (most of whom agreed with the author).

City pages frequently publishes counter-point articles if you want to write one.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Crime

Postby FISHMANPET » June 28th, 2017, 4:27 pm

Nick wrote:
June 28th, 2017, 4:04 pm
Image
Cory Z is an ass hat.

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VacantLuxuries
US Bank Plaza
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Re: Crime

Postby VacantLuxuries » June 28th, 2017, 4:29 pm

How can you refute a thesis that's best summed up as "people feel things are different"? Because according to that rubric, he did a great job of reporting how people feel. The problem is people feel a lot of things that are wrong when compared to real life, and not properly comparing reality to feelings feeds preconceived notions.

grrdanko
Nicollet Mall
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Location: Downtown

Re: Crime

Postby grrdanko » June 28th, 2017, 6:40 pm

This article is stupid. I can tell you why the "feeling" on Hennepin Ave changed. All the bus routes that used to stop on Nicollet are now on Hennepin. A certain percentage of the population are going to be criminal or antisocial. If you increase the number of people on a street you increase the total criminal or antisocial acts.

An arrogant, belligerent drunk from the suburbs getting rolled is not evidence of anything. There is a general feeling from many rural and suburban people that if you go downtown you'll immediately be a victim of a violent crime. We all know this is not true. As a city we are doing just fine without them and I'm not interested in catering to ignorant assumptions. This article will act to confirm some peoples bias and I'm fine with that. Many people think Manhattan and The Loop in Chicago are dangerous. They are doing just fine.

I'm not saying that crime isn't something to be concerned about, but we do need to look at it from a rational and actionable perspective. We need to build a successful, safe and vibrant city, and we can't be distracted by irrational feelings while trying to reach our goals.

EOst
Capella Tower
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Location: North End, Saint Paul

Re: Crime

Postby EOst » June 28th, 2017, 10:22 pm

My only thought about that article is that it needed to follow up on that Larry Millett quote.

amiller92
Wells Fargo Center
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Joined: October 31st, 2014, 12:50 pm

Re: Crime

Postby amiller92 » June 29th, 2017, 10:12 am

grrdanko wrote:
June 28th, 2017, 6:40 pm
This article is stupid. I can tell you why the "feeling" on Hennepin Ave changed. All the bus routes that used to stop on Nicollet are now on Hennepin. A certain percentage of the population are going to be criminal or antisocial. If you increase the number of people on a street you increase the total criminal or antisocial acts.
That and given where these bus routes go, more of the people waiting for them will be black, and white Minnesotans are typically afraid of black people. Which is one very good reason to be very careful about centering how it "feels" rather than how it actually is.

xandrex
Wells Fargo Center
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Re: Crime

Postby xandrex » June 29th, 2017, 10:36 am

Most of the buses diverted from Nicollet don't strike me as having more people of color than any of the E/W routes through downtown, so I'm not sure that's what's causing it. Though certainly concentrating buses on one street could result in more nuisance issues.

One critique of the "but the crime stats don't back it up" argument is that while the article frames this as "feelings" of downtown being grittier, most of the complaints are the very low-level-type nuisances that don't end up in crime stats to begin with. Nobody calls the cops when they see someone urinating on a building. Nor do they do so for catcalls. Or even potentially drug deals. These things are really only measured through anecdotes. Certainly there's a narrative in this story (nearly any non-breaking news story has one—people just ignore the ones that confirm their biases), and maybe it's not a story worth writing. But I think refuting the "feeling" of downtown with crime stats is probably not useful, because they're looking at two similar—but distinct—issues.


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