Urban vs. Suburban Lifestyle

[mullen]

so i had never been up by target's campus in brooklyn park. long story short drove up by there over the weekend for another reason. what a depressing site to see a sprawling block of office buildings surrounding by acres of surface parking.

bad on target for choosing to expand way out in an exurb. and if you don't think it's that far away go drive up there. this is the very definition of unncessary sprawl. it's plopped down in the middle of a field. sprawl on the prairie. it feels like you're way out in the country. just the impression i got, having relatives with farms in stearns county. guess the land was cheap for them. yay.....

and don't waste money building rail connecting this sprawl to downtown by rail. they wanted to build there give them buses. they have the wide newish highways already.

[mattaudio]

Once this economy picks back up, I think its going to take some of these companies by surprise. Once people have more of a choice, they're going to refuse to work at corporate campuses outside the beltway. It's already happening.

[Nathan]

Agreed! I grew up in Maple Grove, and thought it looked nice (which I guess it does) when it was first built, but if they offered me a job there now, I would decline and look elsewhere... yikes, the idea of going back to my NW Suburban childhood nightmare? thanksnothanks.

[spearson]

so i had never been up by target's campus in brooklyn park. long story short drove up by there over the weekend for another reason. what a depressing site to see a sprawling block of office buildings surrounding by acres of surface parking.

bad on target for choosing to expand way out in an exurb. and if you don't think it's that far away go drive up there. this is the very definition of unncessary sprawl. it's plopped down in the middle of a field. sprawl on the prairie. it feels like you're way out in the country. just the impression i got, having relatives with farms in stearns county. guess the land was cheap for them. yay.....

You've clearly never been to the N/NW metro before. That far away? It's like 12 miles from downtown.. And don't be fooled by the view around 169 and 610 in that area. It may look wide open, but it's right in the middle of suburbia. Take a look at google maps and see what I mean.

Besides, you can't blame them, the goal of a business is to make a profit, not to make a downtown skyline look pretty. Suburbs offer cheap land and lower taxes, and probably plenty of tax breaks to build there.

and don't waste money building rail connecting this sprawl to downtown by rail. they wanted to build there give them buses. they have the wide newish highways already.

Strange, that's exactly what the SW LRT is doing, connecting sprawl to downtown by rail...

[nasa35]

Once this economy picks back up, I think its going to take some of these companies by surprise. Once people have more of a choice, they're going to refuse to work at corporate campuses outside the beltway. It's already happening.

You guys need to out more, seriously. I have friends that work in the brooklyn park location and they love it. It's a campus style, no stinky buses and pan handlers...this was their quote.

Plenty of stuff nearby. And the comment that this is far is ridiculous.

[Tyler]

Once this economy picks back up, I think its going to take some of these companies by surprise. Once people have more of a choice, they're going to refuse to work at corporate campuses outside the beltway. It's already happening.

You guys need to out more, seriously. I have friends that work in the brooklyn park location and they love it. It's a campus style, no stinky buses and pan handlers...this was their quote.

Plenty of stuff nearby. And the comment that this is far is ridiculous.

Pretty sure your friends are not the absolute best barometer. ZOMG PAN HANDLERS AND BUSES! *DIES*

P.S. I have a friend who is intent on leaving because of the move.

[mulad]

[Tyler]

You don't understand mulad. It less than 20 minutes by freeway to ANYTHING YOU WANT!

[Nathan]

I wonder what the average age of employees at the BP campus is vs the DT buildings... I bet it's skewed. I drag my feet having to drive to my parents in MG from uptown... it takes 30 minutes... who likes driving and paying for gas that much :/ In most cases Gen Y'ers and Millenials aren't going to stand for that. and this is coming from someone who grew up less than 2 miles from that campus, from the time I was 4 until I was 18, and then for a couple years after college. Aren't I supposed to be trained to like what I was raised with? If I say the words 'live in' and 'Maple Grove(Grave)' in the same sentence to most of my friends from high school they make a gag face (especially the ones still living there), and that's the end of the discussion.

[Nick]

At the risk of both agreeing with nasa35 and taking this further off topic, I'll just wonder out loud where it is you all are finding these huge groups of people who have such a strong preference for living and working in the city, or else. Of course most people would prefer it, but it's not quite the end-all be-all.

I have a pretty young/progressive/urbanish group of friends, many of whom have already taken jobs in the suburbs after graduation, and I don't hear them complaining. Few of them have taken the dive to moving out there to live, though. But I don't imagine that'll hold up after they start having kids. I like living and working downtown, but frankly the front of the downtown Target does always smell like piss. I'll walk a dog by it, but once strollers are in the equation, it changes a bit.

[Nathan]

Finding them all over the U.S... Read Up!

http://www.realtor.org/articles/how-mil ... ess-trends

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/the-aven ... leinberger

http://www.hreonline.com/HRE/story.jsp? ... =533339701

http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/2011/ ... its-charm/

http://www.good.is/post/don-t-call-it-r ... o-detroit/

http://www.cnunext.org/icharrette/docum ... rative.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... de=1416016

google it sometime, fascinating stuff, being we're larger than the baby boomers, it might behoove some of you older guys to pay attention to what us young folk like, we'll fight for it

[mplsjaromir]

Target needs both.

Target is largely a suburban chain store. Not having corporate employees that live the suburban lifestyle would hurt the company. They need people who live the mainstream American suburban life. Target is also pushing deep into urban markets. Having a working "lab" of sorts makes sorting out challenging urban logistics easier. I just got back from a trip to Seattle and Target just opened an new store in the urban core. Lots of Target advertisements everywhere, buses, billboards, ferries, etc.

I think the suburbs will be the bread and butter market for Target for a long time. Urban markets will be where there is growth.

(The following is purely anecdotal, take with grain of salt)

It seems that younger people find cachet with living in the city, but many cannot afford to do so. Also from my own PERSONAL experience people with whom I went to high school with in Blaine, who ended up going to top tier schools like NYU, Stanford, Wisconsin, Carleton, U of Minn STEM programs tend to gravitate toward downtown areas. And those who I know who matriculated at St. Cloud State,or made a half hearted attempt at an AA degree, or have a HS diploma or less seem to find Nowthen, East Bethel and Hugo most attractive. You can probably guess who on average makes more money.

The future big earners will probably be more in urban environments than the generation before. Target is smart for pushing into these markets before its competitors.

[nasa35]

You don't understand mulad. It less than 20 minutes by freeway to ANYTHING YOU WANT!

Again, it would do you guys well to actually get out. There's anything you'd want within 5 minutes. And my friends are a great barometer since thay're actually real and they work and can think outside of 3 mile square area. Plus they're down to earth with not one ounce of snobbery.

[mulad]

I'm not a huge fan of that narrative. I have come to the conclusion that relatively high-density areas are good for me personally -- mostly because I'm quiet and it forces me to interact with others -- but clearly there are people who thrive in suburban lifestyles, and there's a certain contingent that really does best in rural settings.

I will go as far as to say that plopping a corporate campus in the middle of a farm field like that isn't any good for anybody. The only reasons to do that are: cheap land, keeping employees on-site, and reducing the chance the building will be destroyed in the event of nuclear war.

The bad points heavily outweigh that, however.

I do think that there are a lot of people who *think* they do best in suburban/rural locales, but would actually do better in the city. What is happening now is probably more of a rebalancing than anything -- developers have been off living in their own little world, assuming that everyone wants a cul-de-sac, even as many people have been screaming for decades that they don't. (And there are definitely some Baby Boomers who have always been more interested in city life...)

[nasa35]

I'm not a huge fan of that narrative. I have come to the conclusion that relatively high-density areas are good for me personally -- mostly because I'm quiet and it forces me to interact with others -- but clearly there are people who thrive in suburban lifestyles, and there's a certain contingent that really does best in rural settings.

I will go as far as to say that plopping a corporate campus in the middle of a farm field like that isn't any good for anybody. The only reasons to do that are: cheap land, keeping employees on-site, and reducing the chance the building will be destroyed in the event of nuclear war.

The bad points heavily outweigh that, however.

I do think that there are a lot of people who *think* they do best in suburban/rural locales, but would actually do better in the city. What is happening now is probably more of a rebalancing than anything -- developers have been off living in their own little world, assuming that everyone wants a cul-de-sac, even as many people have been screaming for decades that they don't. (And there are definitely some Baby Boomers who have always been more interested in city life...)

Try driving to the city during rush hour. Enlarge the road system and that woud make sense.

[mattaudio]

I turned down an offer at Target when they told me the group may be moving from DT to BP in the near future. I've also turned down jobs at two other distant suburban companies. It takes a lot of money to compensate for the added expense and wasted time to commute 5x/week for 30 min or more.

[Lancestar2]

so i had never been up by target's campus in brooklyn park. long story short drove up by there over the weekend for another reason. what a depressing site to see a sprawling block of office buildings surrounding by acres of surface parking.

bad on target for choosing to expand way out in an exurb. and if you don't think it's that far away go drive up there. this is the very definition of unncessary sprawl. it's plopped down in the middle of a field. sprawl on the prairie. it feels like you're way out in the country. just the impression i got, having relatives with farms in stearns county. guess the land was cheap for them. yay.....

and don't waste money building rail connecting this sprawl to downtown by rail. they wanted to build there give them buses. they have the wide newish highways already.

When I worked for target I know the majority of store ETL switch stores every 2-6 years or so. I known some ETL's that commuted from the north metro to the south metro ect ect. Also for a company that does the majority of there business in the suburbs why wouldn't they consider a suburb option? I mean look at their competitors Walmart HQ is rural, Best Buy, HQ is suburb Kohl's HQ is suburb.

I'm sure you are disappointed as are many here however it's still a smart choice on there part and they can always move locations if there is a red and khaki revolution to a urban lifestyle. Although after seeing so many store ETL's getting promoted to corporate I don't think they have the same "urban lifestyle culture" as many other business downtown.

[PhilmerPhil]

Just wanted to add that I, too, have turned down jobs in the suburbs.

When interviewing for a paid planning internship in Blaine, I asked what issues the department was facing, and when they responded with "The new Walmart and a McDonald's renovation," I knew it was a no go for me. I had to turn it down.

[mullen]

yes to the poster who noted, obviously i'm not mr north metro. i grew up in south mpls and for me the 'burbs will always be richfield, edina and bloomington. i guess it just feels further away up there beause there isn't as much development.

i personally think it looks ridiculous..this pre-cast building with a big target logo and surface parking.

[Nathan]

why wouldn't they consider a suburb option? I mean look at their competitors Walmart HQ is rural, Best Buy, HQ is suburb Kohl's HQ is suburb.

We didn't say that a lot weren't currently in the suburbs, but if you look at the articles I posted, it's companies like Sears (in the suburban realm of Target), who moved out of DT Chicago who are looking to move back to DT Chicago or to Seattle... It's a movement... not something completely in effect yet. Seriously read some of the articles I posted. It's hard to refute when even Detroit had 4 major corporations move in DT recently.