Chicago

go4guy
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Re: Chicago

Postby go4guy » August 14th, 2014, 7:17 am

Would anyone actually want to drink a $2 beer? That is usually going to be a crappy Miller Lite or something. I would prefer to drink an actual good IPA, or something similar. And I never pay more than $5-6 for those. If you are worried about spending $10 to go out an have a few beers, you probably should be budgeting your money a little better.

mattaudio
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Re: Chicago

Postby mattaudio » August 14th, 2014, 9:04 am

You go to a dive bar for the charm. You tolerate the $2 beer.

web

Re: Chicago

Postby web » August 14th, 2014, 7:22 pm

what would Mulad do though?

Minneapolisite

Re: Chicago

Postby Minneapolisite » August 23rd, 2014, 11:38 am

FISHMANPET wrote:I feel like this chart, backers of the Potato Salad Kickstarter by state, explains so much:
Image
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/5/5972825/pot ... gave-money
Well, yeah, You did see where the guy who started that is from, right? Ohio...Columbus.

Minneapolisite

Re: Chicago

Postby Minneapolisite » August 23rd, 2014, 12:01 pm

Silophant wrote:Convention Centers and stadiums that he personally doesn't use and so hates the very existence of, remember.
They don't serve all residents, who are all paying for them, and they're both money pits. I'm far from the only one not using them and not benefiting indirectly from them, which seeing as they're both money pits I'd love to hear how that benefits anyone really. Net losses for all! So it's great for the people using them, but it's because lots of people who don't get anything out of either are footing the bill. Those extra taxes should be going towards what we need as a city: we need to clean up parts of North, we need more safe bikeways to get from point A to B, we need more real mass transit (short waits, late hours), and sometimes we just need a few cheap cold beers.

Anyway, if you want to see first hand why the SWLRT is so goddamn stupid, just go to Chicago already and ride their L lines. You'll notice a hell of a lot more dense residential, which is necessary to make expensive urban rail transit even feasible, and a distinct lack of suburban wastelands around the stations. There's a hell of a lot more to walk to than a parking lot, a Dollar Tree, a Petco, a Chammps, a Jiffy Lube and a Bobby & Steve's Auto World, which is the image of the Twin Cities we're wanting to give tourists. Just think of visitors from Chicago coming up here and instead of the LRT taking them to Uptown, NE, Whittier, or even "downtown" Linden Hills, they step off and are greeted by a strip mall the same crap you'd see in Anyburb, USA. Worst part is, they'll have the impression that Eden Prairie is a premiere Minneapolis neighborhood: why else would you build a rail line out there? And it's not just Chicago proving the SWLRT is a dumb idea: NYC, Boston, San Francisco, they've all built their systems priortizing dense urban areas first and everything else last, and yet here are some people from Minneapolis who are going to tell these cities with many times higher ridership that they're doing it wrong and should have built their main lines out to the burbs? Because when I go to NYC, I just can't decide between Staten Island or Levittown.
Last edited by Minneapolisite on August 23rd, 2014, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xandrex
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Re: Chicago

Postby xandrex » August 23rd, 2014, 12:06 pm

Minneapolisite wrote:Anyway, if you want to see first hand why the SWLRT is so goddamn stupid, just go to Chicago already and ride their L lines. You'll notice a hell of a lot more dense residential, which is necessary to make expensive urban rail transit even feasible, and a distinct lack of suburban wastelands around the stations. There's a hell of a lot more to walk to than a parking lot, a Dollar Tree, a Petco, a Chammps, a Jiffy Lube and a Bobby & Steve's Auto World, which is the image of the Twin Cities we're wanting to give tourists. Just think of visitors from Chicago coming up here and instead of the LRT taking them to Uptown, NE, Whittier, or even "downtown" Linden Hills, they step off and are greeted by a strip mall the same crap you'd see in Anyburb, USA. Worst part is, they'll have the impression that Eden Prairie is a premiere Minneapolis neighborhood: why else would you build a rail line out there?
When I was last in Chicago (and relying totally on foot and the L), I saw plenty of suburban "wasteland" near L stops. Especially once you get a few stops outside of the Loop. I stayed near the Logan Square station (fascinating area) and regularly walked by dilapidated buildings and empty parking lots (all right next to ridiculously expensive condos...go figure). Chicago has a lot of density, but it also has: strip malls, chains, gas stations, and even trains that go to the suburbs. :o

EOst
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Re: Chicago

Postby EOst » August 23rd, 2014, 12:21 pm

Minneapolisite wrote:San Francisco... built their systems priortizing dense urban areas first and everything else last
San Francisco's BART has extremely limited service in the "dense urban core" and mostly goes out to a lot of park-and-ride's and suburbs. Their Muni, in contrast, serves the urban core well but at speeds lower than buses here. Have you ever been there?

Just for emphasis: BART has 44 stations over 104 miles of track, less than one every two miles, which is four times the station frequency for the NY Subway. It also has extremely limited night and weekend hours. The Muni Metro's average speed, meanwhile, is 9.6 miles per hour, significantly slower even than the Green Line here.

Minneapolisite

Re: Chicago

Postby Minneapolisite » August 23rd, 2014, 12:30 pm

You have to be fuckin' kidding me. A few stops outside the Loop and it's all suburbia? Well, there goes any credibility you might have had. All I'm gonna say is:

This is the area around Logan Square Station.

Image
image from Google Maps

This is the area around Opus Station.

Image

image from Google Maps

Minneapolisite

Re: Chicago

Postby Minneapolisite » August 23rd, 2014, 12:32 pm

EOst wrote:
Minneapolisite wrote:San Francisco... built their systems priortizing dense urban areas first and everything else last
San Francisco's BART has extremely limited service in the "dense urban core" and mostly goes out to a lot of park-and-ride's and suburbs. Their Muni, in contrast, serves the urban core well but at speeds lower than buses here. Have you ever been there?

Just for emphasis: BART has 44 stations over 104 miles of track, less than one every two miles, which is four times the station frequency for the NY Subway. It also has extremely limited night and weekend hours. The Muni Metro's average speed, meanwhile, is 9.6 miles per hour, significantly slower even than the Green Line here.
Slower than the Green Line, but you have to consider how much denser San Francisco is: tons more people and destinations within a much shorter distance.

EOst
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Re: Chicago

Postby EOst » August 23rd, 2014, 12:38 pm

What's your point? Here's the 63rd St Station on the Red:

Image

We can both cherry-pick images.

EOst
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Re: Chicago

Postby EOst » August 23rd, 2014, 12:39 pm

Minneapolisite wrote:Slower than the Green Line, but you have to consider how much denser San Francisco is: tons more people and destinations within a much shorter distance.
That's still not much comfort when you're 40 minutes from your job downtown. SF's transit system is honestly not that great either.

xandrex
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Re: Chicago

Postby xandrex » August 23rd, 2014, 4:30 pm

Minneapolisite wrote:You have to be fuckin' kidding me. A few stops outside the Loop and it's all suburbia? Well, there goes any credibility you might have had.
I honestly don't think you get to bestow credibility upon anyone.

I never said "it's all suburbia". I said there's plenty of suburban wasteland, which is especially true when we use your definition of it. Among my travels throughout the city, all within fairly close distance to the core I saw: strip malls, empty parking lots (of the free variety for your shopping convenience). Sitting atop the station is actually a McDonalds with a parking lot and a drive-thru. I know that there's an Intelligentsia across the street, so it probably hurts your feelings to think that Logan Square might have a few less-than-hipster touches, but the truth is the truth.

I know that there is urbanism...and lots of it. And I know that Chicago has--in general--a much better built form than Minneapolis. ;)

The area immediately adjacent to the station is indeed filled in. No doubt at least in part thanks to the fact that Logan Square Station exists. I'm quite aware of what's around it since I, you know, was walking around there every damn day. But this wasn't an indictment against the area or the line. It was about what I saw. In Chicago. Not just in the hipster universe of...well, what's cool now? God knows you couldn't step foot in Wicker Park.

Here's one single stop past Logan Square. It has: big box with parking lot, strip mall with parking lot, gas station at the intersection, and a little decent street-fronting retail. In other words, a whole lot of suburban wasteland near a station with a bit of urbanism mixed in for good measure.

I get it - you hate Eden Prairie. It probably reminds you of the suburgatory you had to live in with all the kids who just didn't get you. They all were content with Applebee's after the football game on Friday and you just wanted to be at some shoegaze party. But nobody from Chicago is going to a) confuse Eden Prairie for Minneapolis and b) look down on us because we have a line to the suburbs. Chicago's got 'em too.

grant1simons2
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Re: Chicago

Postby grant1simons2 » August 23rd, 2014, 5:47 pm

Chicago's burbs are even connected by a train. And they're MUCH worse than Eden prairie. Richer and more bratty

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Chicago

Postby FISHMANPET » August 23rd, 2014, 6:20 pm

Chicago's Blue Line at least has the excuse of going to the airport, which is how it can get away with running down the median of a flipping freeway. But I'm sure you can find stations like that on other lines too. But most of them weren't built in the modern day, they were built 60-100 years ago. The "modern" stuff is all freeway median.

So I guess I'm saying this is a great conversation comparing apples and oranges.

chimpls
Block E
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Re: Chicago

Postby chimpls » August 27th, 2014, 12:53 pm

changing the topic a bit....
here is a radio piece (WBEZ) talking about the history of the famous chicago 2 and 3 flat.

http://www.wbez.org/series/curious-city ... lat-110681

mplsjaromir
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Re: Chicago

Postby mplsjaromir » September 4th, 2014, 10:03 am

I never realized until today that Wicker Park has seen a decline in population that is proportional to New Orleans' loss in population. And that Chicago's West Town community area has seen population loss proportional to Detroit's. I guess heavy rail investment does not guarantee resident retention.

lordmoke
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Re: Chicago

Postby lordmoke » September 29th, 2014, 10:39 am

Big transit changes ahead for the Loop:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... tml#page=2

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Chicago

Postby FISHMANPET » September 29th, 2014, 10:50 am

Behind a paywall, if you close the paywall window you get taken to another non PLUS story. For me it was an article about this weekend's gun violence: 40 wounded, 5 dead. Damn.

grant1simons2
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Re: Chicago

Postby grant1simons2 » September 29th, 2014, 10:55 am

I'm working on getting this into a pdf or just text. Unless lordmoke can do it already

lordmoke
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Re: Chicago

Postby lordmoke » September 29th, 2014, 11:14 am

Huh, it's not behind a paywall for me. I don't really feel comfortable copying the whole article, so here's a key excerpt:

"A summary providing key details of each project follows:

Bus Rapid Transit

The bus rapid transit system in the central Loop will be used by about 1,000 buses each weekday and serve a projected 25,000 riders, according to CDOT and the CTA.

Buses on six CTA routes, making limited stops along buses-only lanes, will operate on Washington, Madison, Clinton and Canal streets between Michigan Avenue on the east and the Ogilvie Transportation Center and Union Station on the west.

Washington and Madison will each have four wheelchair-accessible rapid-transit-style bus stations where passengers will board from platforms level with bus floors. The CTA plans to introduce prepayment at the Madison/Dearborn station to speed up boarding. Eventually, all the weather-protected stations will be outfitted with fare gates to facilitate prepayment, transit officials said.

CTA buses operating downtown currently average less than 5 mph, according to the CTA, which is expecting a 25 percent time savings eastbound between Union Station and Michigan Avenue and a 15 percent time improvement westbound from Michigan to Union Station.

Although ongoing city plans to introduce bus rapid transit on Ashland Avenue have faced stiff opposition from some residents and business owners, officials said that in the downtown area a more efficient use of buses is critical to easing congestion. They point out that buses currently carry 47 percent of the people traveling in vehicles on portions of Washington and Madison and that while 56 percent of people on the two streets walk to their destinations, the downtown has stretched beyond easy walking distance for many trips.
lRelated Union Station plan could bring relief for Metra, Amtrak passengers

Union Station plan could bring relief for Metra, Amtrak passengers

Under the plan, right turns by cars will be restricted at four locations to maintain bus speeds, improve overall traffic flow and protect pedestrians and bicyclists, officials said. The locations are Washington onto LaSalle Street, Madison onto Dearborn, Madison onto Wacker Drive and Jackson Boulevard onto Canal.

As part of the plan, the CTA and CDOT are also studying options to reroute eastbound bus service on Monroe Street to Washington to ease congestion on Monroe and provide extra space for loading and parking on Monroe.

Estimated cost: $32.5 million, with completion in late 2015.

The off-street bus transit center at Union Station will be constructed on the site of the existing surface parking lot south of Jackson Boulevard between Canal and Clinton. The covered bus terminal is intended to complement the bus rapid transit service and provide direct links to Amtrak and Metra trains via stairs and an elevator connecting to the Union Station pedway system. The city's goal is also to reduce demand for private shuttle buses serving office towers, improve traffic flow on Clinton and Canal and offer curbside access to Union Station, officials said.

Currently, 15 CTA bus routes serve Union Station. The CTA estimates that 5,000 daily rides will be taken from the new bus facility, which will have three bays to accommodate up to nine buses at a time.

Improvements for access to Union Station will incorporate a top-to-bottom redesign of Canal Street between Adams Street and Jackson, officials said.

The existing CTA bus lane on the west side of Canal, a barrier-protected route that goes against the flow of northbound traffic, will be eliminated by moving buses to the new transit center on Jackson. Two travel lanes on the west side of Canal will become two northbound general traffic lanes.

A taxi stand and waiting area will be established in the protected median area along Canal between Jackson and Adams, with crosswalks connecting it to the sidewalk. A dedicated stopping area for intercity buses contracted by Amtrak, as well as space for private shuttle buses, will operate from the east side of Canal.

The staging area for Megabus service will be relocated to near the Blue Line subway entrance on Clinton, according to CDOT.

The northbound bike lane on Canal will be removed and the southbound bike lane on Clinton will be converted into two protected lanes serving both northbound and southbound directions, CDOT said.

Estimated cost: $43 million, with completion in late 2015.

Washington/Wabash CTA station

The new CTA Loop elevated station will be located between Madison and Washington and serve the Brown, Green, Orange, Pink and Purple/Evanston Express lines. The existing Randolph/Wabash and Madison/Wabash stations, which date to 1898, will be closed.

Washington/Wabash, embodying a bold white steel and glass design that, based on an artist's rendering, looks somewhat like the skeletal system of a whale, is intended to become the gateway station to downtown and Millennium Park.

It will become the sixth-busiest station in the CTA system, with a projected 14,000 riders boarding each weekday, officials said. It will also become the first wheelchair-accessible station on Wabash, with escalators and elevators on both sides of the street.

CTA officials predict commute times will be faster and more reliable. The transit agency in recent years has rebuilt the Loop "L" tracks and attempted to add trains to the nearly 2-mile circuit in order to boost rider capacity, but trains still often crawl. The net elimination of one station — there will be eight stations instead of the current nine — will allow for fewer time-consuming stops by trains, officials said.

Estimated cost: $75 million, with completion in late 2016."

It's a very long article.


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