Vancouver

amiller92
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Re: Vancouver

Postby amiller92 » August 8th, 2016, 10:51 am

Me too, and we currently have two bedrooms that are not regularly occupied. Clearly, South Minneapolis is a City of Empty Bedrooms.

mattaudio
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Re: Vancouver

Postby mattaudio » August 9th, 2016, 9:27 am

Same here. Two empty bedrooms, and we may even build a third empty bedroom in the basement.

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mister.shoes
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Re: Vancouver

Postby mister.shoes » August 9th, 2016, 10:23 am

Four bedrooms (1 half story, 2 main floor, 1 basement), two empty (main floor, basement). Long range (5+ years) plan for the house includes an addition on the front to expand the kitchen—and will likely include another room in the half story that could count as a bedroom if we do it right.
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MNdible
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Re: Vancouver

Postby MNdible » August 9th, 2016, 10:57 am

While this discussion is a fascinating red herring, and while the original article may not have been as thoroughly researched as it could have been, I think it's kind of silly to completely dismiss the underlying point.

That is: cities like Vancouver, NYC, and Miami (and probably lots of others) have real estate markets that are being broadly distorted by (often foreign) money looking for a safe haven. The construction of lots of expensive units that will never be occupied may be of no concern to you, and it may not ultimately trickle down to the market that the rest of us dwell in, but it is certainly an interesting thing.

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FISHMANPET
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Re: Vancouver

Postby FISHMANPET » August 9th, 2016, 11:00 am

In the 70s in LA that foreign money built dingbats that were run at a wash, they didn't lose money, but they didn't really make money either. Yes, foreign money exists. We can put our fingers in our ears and and scream and complain and try and play whack a mole to make it "stop," or we can use it productively.

E: Whoops, I was wrong about foreign money in the past, but basically they were built in a situation where returns weren't high, investors just needed a safe place to park money. Back then it was domestic investors but today there's no reason it can't be foreign investors (maybe some tax codes changing but it's mostly an allowable development problem). https://letsgola.wordpress.com/2014/12/ ... naissance/

amiller92
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Re: Vancouver

Postby amiller92 » August 9th, 2016, 1:05 pm

I think it's kind of silly to completely dismiss the underlying point.
Honestly, I don't. I don't know if there is a point. I know that the alleged point is politically appealing to lots of people, so you get articles like this one that asserts it based very little.
That is: cities like Vancouver, NYC, and Miami (and probably lots of others) have real estate markets that are being broadly distorted by (often foreign) money
London is almost always on this list. In San Fran it's TechBro money. At least for those two, there's some reason to worry about supply being particularly constrained and thus the money actually displacing residents. Less so where, like Vancouver, construction has been going bonkers.
looking for a safe haven.
I'm not sure an ultra-hot real estate market is ever a safe haven.
The construction of lots of expensive units that will never be occupied may be of no concern to you
The issue is the evidence that for the assertion they will never be occupied. Is there any, really?

And isn't the problem, if it exists, far worse without the construction of those new units?

MNdible
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Re: Vancouver

Postby MNdible » August 9th, 2016, 2:00 pm

I guess the concern is that the market is responding to artificial demands that don't represent what people who live in the city actually want or are willing or are able to pay for. This is different than San Francisco, for example, where there are actual rich people who need to live in multi-million dollar 1.5 story bungalows. And it's different than institutional money that's sloshing around chasing the market building "luxury" (not really luxury) apartments in Minneapolis. It's a fairly novel situation.

And I realize there's really not anything we're going to do to prevent it, and I'm not really suggesting that we should even want to do anything to prevent it. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore it, and not think about how this money is going to warp our city forms in weird ways.

EOst
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Re: Vancouver

Postby EOst » August 9th, 2016, 2:30 pm

That is: cities like Vancouver, NYC, and Miami (and probably lots of others) have real estate markets that are being broadly distorted by (often foreign) money looking for a safe haven. The construction of lots of expensive units that will never be occupied may be of no concern to you, and it may not ultimately trickle down to the market that the rest of us dwell in, but it is certainly an interesting thing.
Exactly. And of course, the idea that this kind of empty tower phenomenon would be entirely a wash simply doesn't hold up. If nothing else, these towers use up valuable land, air rights, construction workers and materials (driving up everyone else's building costs), etc. Not to mention that whatever they replace might have had a lower taxable value, but more residents/jobs/whatever. You might triple the number of units and halve the number of residents--is that a win? You can go on like this.

I'm not saying that cities should step in to prevent these towers necessarily, or even do anything. But it's certainly worth talking about. If the tallest skyscraper in Minneapolis were an empty condo building owned mostly by Chinese and Russian oligarchs on Nicollet Mall, it would generate at least as much resentment as the recent stadiums.

amiller92
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Re: Vancouver

Postby amiller92 » August 9th, 2016, 2:37 pm

I guess the concern is that the market is responding to artificial demands that don't represent what people who live in the city
Every real estate market includes investors, either speculating or buying rental property. Speculators are almost certainly the marginal buyers and the first to vanish if/when a bubble bursts, but the concern is still the bubble, not the existence of speculators.
But that doesn't mean that we should ignore it, and not think about how this money is going to warp our city forms in weird ways.
On the one hand, a speculative bubble leading to over-building at least leaves you with housing stock that might suddenly be a lot more affordable than you thought.

On the other hand, post-crash Spain seemed to be left with a lot of unwanted housing stock built with the expectation of foreign demand. Ireland also got whipsawed with European money flowing in and then going back out again (although, based on casual observation while touring only, didn't see to be really overbuilt).

For the US (and probably even Vancouver, but I'm less sure), the sheer size of our local economy means that foreign capital inflow/outflows really can't be as devastating as they were for Ireland and Spain.

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Vancouver

Postby Anondson » December 11th, 2016, 7:50 pm

Vancouver leading North America in bike trips.

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