Richfield - 66th Street - General Topics

[sdho]

On the east end, Richfield Council and Planning Commission heard some early ideas from two developers tonight for properties around Cedar Point, the area around 66th St and Cedar Avenue.

At the NW corner of the roundabout, on the large vacant parcel, Hempel Companies envisions adding another strip retail building, similar to the building housing Caribou/Noodles on the east side of Richfield Parkway. They would also add another building at the intersection of the SB Cedar Avenue/TH 77 ramp and 66th St -- just east of Chipotle.

At the SW corner of the roundabout, Interstate Partners is interested in developing a strip retail building with a drive-through facing 16th Avenue.

Both projects would have the parking behind and the building closer to 66th Street, but neither had really considered how to actually address 66th Street, or provide access to pedestrians/bicyclists/transit users. As has been the case elsewhere (see Kensington Park), there's a combination barrier:

1. Cities don't want the parking lot in front (for good reason)
2. Tenants don't want to maintain two entrances
3. Tenants don't want customers to have to walk from the parking lot to the front of the building

The result is the front of the building faces inward, and leaves a pretty lifeless faces on the street.

Concerns were expressed about both the drive-thru (especially given proximity to homes nearby) and the blank face on 66th. Some council members expressed concern about the anticipated tenant mix -- more fast casual, discount cell providers, and the like -- hoping for a sit-down restaurant.

[twincitizen]

Did anyone bring up the fact that there are still 3-4 vacancies in the existing Cedar Point retail buildings?
Or all of the other various vacancies and underutilized buildings along east 66th, just west of the 'Cedar Point' area?

It could be that more new commercial space is not exactly in demand here. If Hempel wants to build out the restaurant pad site east of Chipotle, great! But I'm dubious about adding more empty retail on the vacant land west of Richfield Parkway

[min-chi-cbus]

How about retail that caters to independent local businesses? I realize that's not as profitable as a McDonald's and a Starbucks but I bet it'd fill up much faster.

[sdho]

Did anyone bring up the fact that there are still 3-4 vacancies in the existing Cedar Point retail buildings?
Or all of the other various vacancies and underutilized buildings along east 66th, just west of the 'Cedar Point' area?

It could be that more new commercial space is not exactly in demand here. If Hempel wants to build out the restaurant pad site east of Chipotle, great! But I'm dubious about adding more empty retail on the vacant land west of Richfield Parkway

Hempel addressed this, basically just saying they're really good at leasing out. And seemed to indicate they were in talks with tenants for the new spaces. But no, there seemed to be no particular skepticism toward the idea of adding more space.

How about retail that caters to independent local businesses? I realize that's not as profitable as a McDonald's and a Starbucks but I bet it'd fill up much faster.

I'm not sure how well this can be done with new buildings, which are just plain expensive to rent. Richfield misses out on one feature of South Minneapolis and St. Louis Park in that it doesn't have the legacy of streetcar nodes, with a nice cluster of small, relatively cheap spaces. The E 66th St strip has some such spaces, as does Penn Ave near the Crosstown. And in fact, you do see a lot of local business in them. Just near here, you've got World of Fish, Frenchman's, an independent African market, and an independent Mexican grocery and restaurant. But with inconsistent setbacks, lack of on-street or district parking, and poor pedestrian infrastructure (soon to be drastically improved), you don't get that same sense of a shopping district today.

In any case, I'm not sure many of those businesses could afford a lease in a brand-new space.

[mattaudio]

I'm really skeptical of all these 1-story strip malls along 66th St at nodes like Lyndale, Nicollet, and Richfield Pkwy. Richfield may not have "streetcar nodes," but it can build the same thing. Richfield needs to build a better platform for land use along this corridor. Maybe slip lanes and shared parking in some places to encouraged consistent setbacks. Other changes to make multi-story mixed use pencil out. Encourage narrower storefronts to increase storefront density. Etc. It doesn't need to be complicated. The beloved heart of my neighborhood, 48th and Chicago, is all 1 story except or the Shenandoah Building, and that's 2 story. But it works. So, to clarify, my concern isn't necessarily that they're 1-story, but more of the form: Setbacks, monolithic strip mall design, etc. We can do one-story structures with finer grain and have success. Common street setback, no setback between neighbors, and good street presence: https://goo.gl/maps/M4WGXBzgasx

[blobs]

Good point, mattaudio. I would like to see the things you suggested implemented.

66th and Penn is a good example of a bad place. It just doesn't work. Compare with 50th and Penn.

[sdho]

I'm really skeptical of all these 1-story strip malls along 66th St at nodes like Lyndale, Nicollet, and Richfield Pkwy. Richfield may not have "streetcar nodes," but it can build the same thing. Richfield needs to build a better platform for land use along this corridor. Maybe slip lanes and shared parking in some places to encouraged consistent setbacks. Other changes to make multi-story mixed use pencil out. Encourage narrower storefronts to increase storefront density. Etc. It doesn't need to be complicated. The beloved heart of my neighborhood, 48th and Chicago, is all 1 story except or the Shenandoah Building, and that's 2 story. But it works. So, to clarify, my concern isn't necessarily that they're 1-story, but more of the form: Setbacks, monolithic strip mall design, etc. We can do one-story structures with finer grain and have success. Common street setback, no setback between neighbors, and good street presence: https://goo.gl/maps/M4WGXBzgasx

Couldn't you argue that a strip mall is a modern version of a store having no setback between neighbors? Particularly for the proposal between 16th and Richfield Pkwy, which would occupy the whole block face (except perhaps drive-thru at one end). It seems to me the critical difference is how well it engages the street. I agree that one-story is not a dealbreaker to being a great place. Diamond Lake and Nicollet also provides very nice examples of low-slung buildings that still create a great neighborhood center.

66th and Penn is a good example of a bad place. It just doesn't work. Compare with 50th and Penn.

To be fair, two of four corners of 50th and Penn are surface lots. Better than four of four corners, sure, although 66/Penn does have some decent "traditional" frontage in the SW quadrant from 66th to 68th. Again, I think the condition and character of the street affect this perception a lot.

[mattaudio]

Couldn't you argue that a strip mall is a modern version of a store having no setback between neighbors?

Maybe? But find me a "modern strip mall" that looks even half as good as an average blockface of the same length built in the traditional development pattern.

[sdho]

The examples are few and far between, unfortunately. But "Uptown Row" comes to mind, at Emerson and Lake. It is technically mixed-use, but I don't think losing the second-floor offices would radically change it. It is undeniably a strip mall, even with some of the usual suspects like a cell phone store and salon.

The 5000 block of France Ave also provides an interesting contrast. On the west side, a large, somewhat monolithic mixed-use building with ground-floor retail. On the east side, more traditional, smaller units, 1 or 2 stories. The east side has some more interesting local shops, while the west side is bigger retailers. But the actual on-the-ground experience for a pedestrian is about equally as good.

[sdho]

To the south, the owner of the Market Plaza/Village Shores site has submitted a proposed amendment to their PUD. This is the large property at the northwest corner of 66th St and Lyndale Ave. The Planning Commission will consider this next Tuesday (23rd).

The former Champps space will be remodeled to house an HCMC Clinic that is currently at the Hub. The building exterior will be aesthetically updated. Inside, some of the units that are currently independent senior housing will be converted to assisted living and memory care.

There are some minor improvements to the public realm. A green buffer will be added along 66th. A pergola will be placed over a few parking spots at the corner. A narrow sidewalk will be installed that snakes through the parking lot, making the journey a little more convenient for pedestrians and transit users. And they will provide bike parking for 8 bikes. For 50,000 sq ft of retail.





Full details in the packet: http://ci.richfield.mn.us/home/showdocument?id=8865

[uptown82]

This looks great and will finally fill the vacant space from Snyders Drug. Does anyone know if Champps has closed or are they being kicked out?

[sdho]

I believe Champps made the decision to close the location.

[sdho]

Planning Commission approved this last night 4-1. I voted it against it due to concerns that they had not adequately addressed pedestrian and bicycle issues. I don't think the owner had any animus toward bike/ped, but was unwilling to part with parking spaces to allow a higher-quality pedestrian connection.

Several community members who were residents of Village Shores and the adjacent condo building spoke in favor of the changes. Two community members spoke against the project. One raised concerns about adding 50 additional units of senior housing. Another raised concerns about the clinic and the loss of Champps. (Which, I learned, was denied a lease renewal by the owner -- I assume because the clinic could occupy both the Champps space and the former Snyders drug space)

Apparently, the loss of Champps has caused quite a digital ruckus:
https://www.change.org/p/shannon-hauer- ... -richfield

[HiawathaGuy]

Apparently, the loss of Champps has caused quite a digital ruckus:
https://www.change.org/p/shannon-hauer- ... -richfield

Maybe Champps can anchor a new development in the Hub, combined with a new Walgreens. That whole area is ripe for an update/upgrade.

[sdho]

Apparently, the loss of Champps has caused quite a digital ruckus:
https://www.change.org/p/shannon-hauer- ... -richfield

Maybe Champps can anchor a new development in the Hub, combined with a new Walgreens. That whole area is ripe for an update/upgrade.

I think there'd be a lot of community support for that, but as far as I know, the owners of the Hub have not expressed much interest in redevelopment or improvements to the existing site. As an added barrier, there is no real city plan for the area. In other areas, like Lyndale/66th, Cedar/66th, and Penn/66th, there is a plan of more or less how the community would like to see development occur.

The effectiveness of these plans is inconsistent, but the multiple Cedar Point developments actually adheres really well to what was envisioned.

Anyway, no current vision for Nicollet -- such as, would we want to complete the street grid? Would we want mixed-use? What intensity would we want? But the hope is to include a rudimentary plan for the area in the next Comp Plan update.

[Qhaberl]

I live in the Hub area. Each time I pass by the end of the string of parking lots, I think to myself, it would be so great to see this area redeveloped. Can you imagine all the business rainbow foods would get if the density in the surrounding area were increased.

[twincitizen]

I would love to see The Hub be transformed into Excelsior & Grand, or even a slightly worse version of it. In any vision for what The Hub should be, I would start there.

My deepest fears are that due to both "the market" (area median incomes, lack of demand for high-end rentals) and the city's inability to produce a large TIF subsidy package (due to small population / tax base), my vision just isn't possible.

[Qhaberl]

Can you explain what you mean by, "a worse version of Excelsior and grand"?

[twincitizen]

I want to copy St. Louis Park's Excelsior & Grand redevelopment, but due to market realities listed above, would still accept a lesser version of it.

Excelsior & Grand: http://www.excelsiorandgrand.com/
http://www.esgarch.com/project/excelsior-and-grand/
Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9332677 ... 312!8i6656

Whoa, check out this Steve Berg MinnPost piece from 2008 about the barriers to pulling off similar projects, now that the MN legislature enacted stricter controls on TIF and essentially eliminated eminent domain (both arguably good moves, but probably too far-reaching): https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2008 ... d-unlikely

In response to that, I would say that a redevelopment of The Hub would not have some of those barriers, because it is a single parcel with one owner, and it would obviously have to be a privately-led redevelopment. I never, ever envision the city getting involved to the degree that SLP was in E&G. In Richfield, I would expect the city to lead with a vision for future land use, set some minimums/expectations for total number of units, total development costs, etc., and provide a substantial TIF subsidy to make that redevelopment pencil out.

[sdho]

From that article:

Much of the knowledge gained at Excelsior & Grand is being used on a larger project — The West End, a 43-acre lifestyle center designed to bring office jobs and high-end retail to the intersection of I-394 and Highway 100.

I am deeply disturbed if the West End -- a glorified strip mall on a privately owned, Disney World-esque main street -- is the result of what we've learned from E&G.

Twincitizen -- what exactly would TIF be used for at the Hub site? Internal streets? It seems more obvious with something like MOA, which generates huge amounts of traffic and needs roadways to funnel all that.