29th Street Reconstruction Project

Calhoun-Isles, Cedar-Riverside, Longfellow, Nokomis, Phillips, Powderhorn, and Southwest
Mcgizz
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 144
Joined: December 2nd, 2014, 11:08 pm

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby Mcgizz » November 19th, 2015, 9:44 pm

Anondson wrote:Where would a woonerf be *needed*, though? Not a hypothetical, but which actual Minneapolis street?
It took a few days for me to genuinely think of an answer to this question. I came up with three streets.

One could make the argument that a woonerf could be built on Chicago Avenue between S 6th ST and S 4th ST outside the stadium. This section actually makes more sense now that I think about it more and more. Secondly, if the city ever wanted to open S 2nd ST between Hennepin Avenue and Marquette Avenue or even S 2nd Avenue a woonerf would fit that area nicely (not that I know if this is even on their radar). And lastly perhaps across the river along Main Street between NE 1st Avenue and SE 6th Avenue.

And really, these three candidates are all sort of halfway there. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2702
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby RailBaronYarr » November 20th, 2015, 9:26 am

Isn't an acceptable answer to that question basically *any* neighborhood interior street? Nothing is "needed," it's all a series of design choice tradeoffs. A random example, Colfax Ave in the Wedge serve zero regional traffic needs, speeds over 15mph on any stretch fro the Greenway to Hennepin might shave seconds off your journey given stop signs, etc. Parking is in decent demand but currently unpriced. A woonerf-like design that puts vehicles and peds all at the same level (no curb), puts trees or stormwater treatment elements well into the current carriageway, maybe some covered bike parking hoops jutting out as chicanes, heck maybe even a garden or a basketball hoop along the edge, would not make the life of anyone driving much worse. Think Milwaukee Ave or the proposed North Minneapolis greenway, just a little different. Of course, this street would potentially cost more to build, more to plow, and someone would have to maintain all that stuff differently than a typical street. And of course there'd be less car parking. But none of those things necessarily mean the design itself is a "bad" idea or inappropriate. A street doesn't have to be an ultra-dense commercial street or even lined with 6 story apartments to make it worthwhile. What if we said we were going to build 25 blocks like Milwaukee Ave (but allow car access) scattered throughout the city, every year. What would the impacts be? To parking? To traffic? To the city budget/average property tax bill? To perceived "park" space? To bike/transit mode share? To how many people the city can hold? To resident safety?

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4755
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby David Greene » November 20th, 2015, 10:26 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:A random example, Colfax Ave in the Wedge serve zero regional traffic needs, speeds over 15mph on any stretch fro the Greenway to Hennepin might shave seconds off your journey given stop signs, etc.
Actually Colfax is a pretty good example. Because of the lack of stop signs between 26th and 28th, a lot of westbound traffic turns south on Colfax and west on 27th (where there are also no stop signs) to get to Hennepin, basically using a stop-free cut-through path. Predictably, what I believe are non-residents take this route at relatively high speed.

I take it too but I always stay at or below 25mph.

I would love to see a change along this particular path. Even just a couple of stop signs would make a huge difference.

27th sees an unusually high amount of traffic, I presume due to its lack of stop signs.

26th, 27th, 28th and Colfax really need some calming. I'm sure there are others in the Wedge that need it too but these are the candidates I'm most familiar with.

twincitizen
Moderator
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Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby twincitizen » June 7th, 2016, 8:22 am

On the TPW agenda today: http://www.minneapolismn.gov/meetings/l ... MSP-180897

Estimated at just under a million bucks to reconstruct two short blocks (1/8 mile). Does not include the tens (hundreds?) of thousands spent on the two years long planning/engagement effort

The layout does include a limited number of parking bays. Anyone heard if those will be metered spots? (Please say yes!)

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7905
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby mattaudio » June 7th, 2016, 8:35 am

Half of which is coming from a Met Council grant they're requesting (IIRC what I saw on the W&M agenda).

Minneboy
US Bank Plaza
Posts: 661
Joined: January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby Minneboy » June 7th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Unreal this is still being debated. Nothing gets done very fast it seems.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6188
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby twincitizen » June 7th, 2016, 5:02 pm

It's not being debated, it's going out for bid (unless something happened at TPW today that I missed...)

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2702
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby RailBaronYarr » June 8th, 2016, 10:46 am

I will admit, this feels like a very expensive pedestrian street. Especially since it's not particularly heavy on the amenities. Part of the point of these things is that they're cheaper to build and maintain than your typical 32' asphalt street + curbs + sidewalk, right? If there's a hope of getting more residential streets to look more like Milwaukee Ave, we kinda have to prove it's not only safer for all users, but a cheaper template than what we're currently doing.

aeisenberg
Union Depot
Posts: 314
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 7:45 pm

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby aeisenberg » August 30th, 2016, 3:44 pm

Image
Aaron Eisenberg / Realtor, Keller Williams Integrity
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David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4755
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: 29th Street Reconstruction Project

Postby David Greene » September 20th, 2016, 10:47 am

RailBaronYarr wrote:I will admit, this feels like a very expensive pedestrian street. Especially since it's not particularly heavy on the amenities. Part of the point of these things is that they're cheaper to build and maintain than your typical 32' asphalt street + curbs + sidewalk, right? If there's a hope of getting more residential streets to look more like Milwaukee Ave, we kinda have to prove it's not only safer for all users, but a cheaper template than what we're currently doing.
I read somewhere that 29th was never a properly-paved street. They just slopped some asphalt over the dirt road. That might have something to do with the cost of this. They're basically building an entirely new road.


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