U.S. Bank Stadium

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David Greene
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby David Greene » September 19th, 2016, 2:56 pm

amiller92 wrote:How so? The city's portion will be paid out of the convention center taxes, when the original debts are paid off.

The state's is the corporate tax loophole thing, the one-time cigarette floor tax money, and the e-pulltabs, which are apparently no longer a fantasy.
All of these represent huge opportunity costs. What kind of transit system could we have built out if we redirected these taxes to that? Even if that's pretty much a fantasy, these taxes make it that much harder to raise the city's sales tax to do other things of more worth.

Extending a tax that was ready to sunset isn't "free."

MNdible
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby MNdible » September 19th, 2016, 3:43 pm

amiller92 wrote:How so?
Sorry for the confusion; my response was to Colink's original question, not to VAStationDude's response which snuck in while I was posting.

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Chip Whitley
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby Chip Whitley » September 19th, 2016, 9:27 pm

How long will the funding of the stadium be discussed? Everyone loved to talk about the funding of Target Field before US Bank but now no one talks about it. Last I heard, Target Field was going to be paid off years early and under budget due to reduced interest. It was worthy of discussion before it was passed but it just seems like it won't die. It was passed May 2012 and 2017 is only a few months away. I'm not a huge fan of how it was funded but there have been some obvious benefits to the city and nothing will change now. It's just getting annoying how every time the Vikings are discussed or the stadium, there are bunch of comments about it. But I digress.

I was at the game and have now attended the first 3 games and have had a chance to to see the game from most parts of the stadium including the nosebleeds, the lower bowl, and from a suite. It's a cliche but it really is a "world class" football stadium in my opinion, which should be expected I suppose. I'm not going to say the stadium is perfect but it's a solid 9 out of 10. The exterior of the stadium is probably a 7 or an 8. As others have said, I'd like to see a more permanent entry for events. Although the nice part is that when events aren't happening, the plaza is totally open. The ped bridge and Commons were good ideas and I'm happy they happened.

I'm sure just like with Target Field, some minor changes/ upgrades will be made here and there. As I mentioned above, in several years when people do (mostly) forget about the funding, I see it as an asset to the city and state.

David Greene
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby David Greene » September 19th, 2016, 10:12 pm

I am not happy we built a pedestrian bridge for 10 freaking million dollars. It's completely ridiculous.

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Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby Didier » September 20th, 2016, 7:34 am

If only we had threads for discussing the stadium financing and the pedestrian bridge.

colink
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby colink » September 20th, 2016, 8:59 am

At least the pedestrian bridge is being used. There were literally thousands of people using it Sunday night. I actually got caught on it walking west while everyone else was walking east. I was just there to bear witness.

acs
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby acs » September 20th, 2016, 9:07 am

Remember all the talk about the Vikings monopolizing the commons park? Completely overblown. Even the nearest block was wide open for public use Saturday afternoon and Monday morning. Even on Sunday the park and the plaza area was open for everyone to enjoy the programming regardless of whether you had a ticket. Also, the skyway entrance is not VIP exclusive but in this weather it didn't get much use.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 20th, 2016, 9:08 am

LakeCharles wrote:Sorry to extend this longer than necessary, but the Wilfs did not put up a "ton" of their own money. The team put in $600 million. US Bank paid them $230 million for naming rights. The entrances and clubs naming rights brought in another $110 million. The NFL gave them an interest-free loan over 20 years of $150 million. The Wilfs put in the remaining $110 million. And the valuation of the team jumped up $700 million. So they made a business investment with an ROI of 535%. Yes, $110 million is a lot, but if someone offered you a deal to pay $110 and get $700 back immediately, anyone would take it.
I don't know why people keep doing this. Setting aside the NFL loan, any money that would otherwise have gone into the Wilf's pocket is there money. If I purchase a rental property and use the rental income to pay the mortgage, is that somehow not my money? If I sign a lease for a cell tower on the roof and put that money told the down payment, is that not my money? Of course not. You're just complaining about my capital structure.

And, of course, it's a reasonable bet that even the $110 million you're crediting was borrowed. If so, does that mean they put in zero of their own dollars? Of course not.

As to the NFL loan, I think I read there were ways for that to be forgiven or paid off out of NFL funds, so maybe that's not their money to the extent they won't have to pay it back.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 20th, 2016, 9:15 am

Didier wrote:If only we had threads for discussing the stadium financing and the pedestrian bridge.
Where's the thread for complaining about which direction the conversation has taken?

LakeCharles
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby LakeCharles » September 20th, 2016, 10:30 am

amiller92 wrote:
LakeCharles wrote:Sorry to extend this longer than necessary, but the Wilfs did not put up a "ton" of their own money. The team put in $600 million. US Bank paid them $230 million for naming rights. The entrances and clubs naming rights brought in another $110 million. The NFL gave them an interest-free loan over 20 years of $150 million. The Wilfs put in the remaining $110 million. And the valuation of the team jumped up $700 million. So they made a business investment with an ROI of 535%. Yes, $110 million is a lot, but if someone offered you a deal to pay $110 and get $700 back immediately, anyone would take it.
I don't know why people keep doing this. Setting aside the NFL loan, any money that would otherwise have gone into the Wilf's pocket is there money. If I purchase a rental property and use the rental income to pay the mortgage, is that somehow not my money? If I sign a lease for a cell tower on the roof and put that money told the down payment, is that not my money? Of course not. You're just complaining about my capital structure.

And, of course, it's a reasonable bet that even the $110 million you're crediting was borrowed. If so, does that mean they put in zero of their own dollars? Of course not.

As to the NFL loan, I think I read there were ways for that to be forgiven or paid off out of NFL funds, so maybe that's not their money to the extent they won't have to pay it back.
Naming rights money would NOT have gone into their pocket without the stadium. And the loan is forgivable. And obviously the state, city and county portions would not have gone in their pocket without the stadium. So they only put in $110 million, and gained $700 million.

amiller92
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby amiller92 » September 20th, 2016, 10:52 am

LakeCharles wrote:Naming rights money would NOT have gone into their pocket without the stadium.
None of the new revenues would have gone into their pocket without the new stadium. So what? It's still their money. And the whole point of building a new stadium was to get them new revenues.

Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby Didier » September 20th, 2016, 12:20 pm

amiller92 wrote:Where's the thread for complaining about which direction the conversation has taken?
It's probably in the same subforum as the thread for complaining about people complaining about which direction the conversation has taken.

(Sorry, but this was too easy)

Didier
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby Didier » September 20th, 2016, 12:24 pm

But by all means, please go back to discussing the four-year-old funding package that nobody agrees on. I'm sure there's a lot of new and compelling insight that hasn't already been fleshed out in the previous 97 pages of this thread.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 1:34 pm

EOst wrote:Uh-huh.

BTW, Zatoichi Meets Yojimbo is terrible. Just a cynical attempt to cash in on two beloved characters.
You're right, it was not all that good - pretty much for the reasons you stated.

I would have responded earlier but this page was locked and then I was in NYC.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 1:51 pm

LakeCharles wrote:
VikingFaninMaryland wrote:The Wilfs played hardball and they won – boo hoo. They also put up a ton of their own money.
Sorry to extend this longer than necessary, but the Wilfs did not put up a "ton" of their own money. The team put in $600 million. US Bank paid them $230 million for naming rights. The entrances and clubs naming rights brought in another $110 million. The NFL gave them an interest-free loan over 20 years of $150 million. The Wilfs put in the remaining $110 million. And the valuation of the team jumped up $700 million. So they made a business investment with an ROI of 535%. Yes, $110 million is a lot, but if someone offered you a deal to pay $110 and get $700 back immediately, anyone would take it.
Sorry, but all the money you refer to above was their money either as currently realized or as a current right in a future interest; it reflects the basis of bargains stemming from their strong ownership interests. With the exception of the loans they must pay off (which itself is secured through collateralized interests), the funds noted reflect $$ they either can or could in the future have pocketed. The Vikings owned the naming rights which they sold for market value. They fact that they are able to pay down the construction debt with out touching current accounts is simply sound financial management (that almost all major construction programs engage in).

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 1:58 pm

mplsjaromir wrote:It's Al-Shabaab you frickin' rube.

The entire counter terrorism apparatus is based around the implicit targeting and profiling of Muslim communities, yet because people are critical of an ugly and unnecessary stadium you think it stems from antisemitism. Class act.
I've made my case on anti-semitism earlier, you can read back. Al-Shabab, like almost all the groups with Middle-Eastern / HOA origin, have many ways to spell them - all of which are based on the the translation conventions used. Muslim communities receive a disproportionate focus because (and get ready for this objectively demonstrable reality) they constitute a disproportionate percentage of terrorist activity.

I just returned from NYC, which is on complete lockdown. When a news story came on reporting that "there may be a terrorist cell in NYC," everyone just burst out laughing "Ya think?".

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 2:00 pm

MattW wrote:U MAD BRO?
Actually no.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 2:00 pm

MattW wrote:U MAD BRO?
Actually no.

VikingFaninMaryland
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby VikingFaninMaryland » September 20th, 2016, 2:26 pm

amiller92 wrote:
LakeCharles wrote:Naming rights money would NOT have gone into their pocket without the stadium.
None of the new revenues would have gone into their pocket without the new stadium. So what? It's still their money. And the whole point of building a new stadium was to get them new revenues.
AMILLER, I was just going down the responses to me before I saw you pretty much covered my point. What you're up against is confluence of two issues that have nothing to do with large project financing; 1) those that simply don't understand property rights and private sector investment financing or 2) those that who need to moralize on issues that are simply business decisions. There is a third category, those who understand point 1 but put is aside to make point 2.

As I have not seen the Wilf's books, I don't even know, for example, that the money they made from naming rights was actually used to pay down the debt of the stadium. If not, the Wilfs could use those funds for any reason they want, or no reason at all (that's legal parlance). The point is, as you note, its there money whether realized or a future interest.

mplsjaromir
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Re: U.S. Bank Stadium

Postby mplsjaromir » September 20th, 2016, 2:29 pm

Terrorism/Terrorist is a nebulous term, completely subjective.


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