Allianz Field and Snelling-Midway Development

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seanrichardryan
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby seanrichardryan » March 26th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Scratch that. Irgens is the partner.
The St. Paul Port Authority staff is recommending Milwaukee-based developer Irgens as a partner in the effort to redevelop the Midway Shopping Center property next to the Major League Soccer stadium site.

If approved by Port Authority officials, Irgens will enter a joint venture with the Port and the Minnesota United soccer team to eventually purchase a 15.6-acre site that contains the shopping center — part of which needs to come down to make way for the stadium.
http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-port ... 416980034/
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

Didier
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » March 29th, 2017, 11:36 am


talindsay
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby talindsay » March 29th, 2017, 4:06 pm

I don't understand why nobody can simply agree to build a new grocery store for SuperValu as part of this redevelopment, and to block any other grocery tenant in the other regions of the development. Isn't that SuperValu's sole concern?

Didier
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » March 30th, 2017, 10:40 am

I think they'd need more consultants to determine that.

MattW
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby MattW » March 30th, 2017, 2:07 pm

talindsay wrote:
March 29th, 2017, 4:06 pm
I don't understand why nobody can simply agree to build a new grocery store for SuperValu as part of this redevelopment, and to block any other grocery tenant in the other regions of the development. Isn't that SuperValu's sole concern?
The problem is is that SuperValu doesn't care about the performance of that Rainbow. They are holding onto it to prevent a competitor from coming in. They have a Cub just down the street that's performing just fine. Since the death of most big box retailers, there is really nothing that could go into that space that would satisfy SuperValu. What could anchor that development other than a grocery store?

mattaudio
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mattaudio » March 31st, 2017, 11:31 am

So why not just put in a 20 year easement that no grocer can be in the development, and call it done?

MattW
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby MattW » March 31st, 2017, 12:46 pm

That's not outside of the realm of possibility. However, nine times out of ten a developer will want an anchor tenant; particularly on a huge development like that. What could go in there? Target & Walmart are just down the street and SuperValu wouldn't like that... Best Buy? Circuit City? :D

mattaudio
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mattaudio » March 31st, 2017, 1:41 pm

Any developer looking for a big box anchor tenant right now deserves the shitstorm about to hit their books due to the collapse of this segment.

talindsay
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby talindsay » April 2nd, 2017, 3:39 pm

So the game last night drew about 17k fans, which is pretty decent for MLS but about half of the first game, and left TCF looking fairly empty. I can also say that at least some of those fans paid very little money to be there - we got a special deal as purchasers of tickets to the home opener and paid practically nothing for our tickets.

As I consider the costs associated with hosting a game, and with privately funding a stadium, I do wonder how much tickets would have to bring in to cover costs, and wonder how long-term they're willing to think on profitability. With only 17 home games a year, it seems that each one will have to make quite a lot of money to cover the annualized costs of the stadium. Perhaps they're getting lots of money from a league television contract, or otherwise getting revenue from the league?

mplsjaromir
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mplsjaromir » April 3rd, 2017, 7:14 am

I think the national TV deal is worth around $4 million annually to each team. I do not know where the WFTC-MyNetworkTV deal is valued, but I cannot image it is too much. The gate will be critical for these guys to be successful.

ProspectPete
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby ProspectPete » April 3rd, 2017, 10:25 am

Maybe the merchandise kicks in a little as well.

Didier
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » April 3rd, 2017, 11:35 am

MLS also has a marketing arm called Soccer United Marketing that also helps fill the league's coffers in mysterious ways.

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby BigIdeasGuy » April 5th, 2017, 8:29 am

I'm certainly not an elite MLS business mind but I do know that running a MLS team to be profitable yearly is can be tough, not impossible but tough. Where the owners make their money is the increase in the value of owning the franchise. The theory is so what if I lose $500,000 on the yearly operation of the team if the value of my team jumps by $5,000,000.

mattaudio
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mattaudio » April 5th, 2017, 8:43 am

Sounds like a bubble...

Didier
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby Didier » April 6th, 2017, 6:24 am

BigIdeasGuy wrote:
April 5th, 2017, 8:29 am
Where the owners make their money is the increase in the value of owning the franchise.
This is true for pro sports teams in general, not specific to MLS.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mplsjaromir » April 7th, 2017, 9:56 am

Didier wrote:
April 6th, 2017, 6:24 am
BigIdeasGuy wrote:
April 5th, 2017, 8:29 am
Where the owners make their money is the increase in the value of owning the franchise.
This is true for pro sports teams in general, not specific to MLS.
NBA and NFL teams easily make enough money from TV deals to be profitable.

MNdible
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby MNdible » April 7th, 2017, 10:20 am

Also, if your company is profitable on paper, that means that you have to pay taxes, and smart businesspeople don't pay taxes.

at40man
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby at40man » April 7th, 2017, 12:24 pm

mattaudio wrote:
March 31st, 2017, 1:41 pm
Any developer looking for a big box anchor tenant right now deserves the shitstorm about to hit their books due to the collapse of this segment.
"Who the hell wouldn't want to use TIF financing to lure Hy-Vee fitness centers, gas stations, liquor, and fake-and-bake pizza all under one glorious 95,000 sq ft roof with literally ACRES of free parking?!?" -Kent Carlson of Inland Development, probably

/snark

BigIdeasGuy
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby BigIdeasGuy » April 8th, 2017, 8:02 am

mplsjaromir wrote:
April 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Didier wrote:
April 6th, 2017, 6:24 am
BigIdeasGuy wrote:
April 5th, 2017, 8:29 am
Where the owners make their money is the increase in the value of owning the franchise.
This is true for pro sports teams in general, not specific to MLS.
NBA and NFL teams easily make enough money from TV deals to be profitable.
That's the part of the MLS business plan I don't get. In 2015 MLS signed an 8 year deal TV contract for roughly $90 million a year. With the massive growth of the league why not sign shorter deals? I get the risk and certainty aspect of it but I guess by 2022 the TV rights for MLS are going to grow massively, so why not try to get some of that money earlier?

Unless the sports TV rights bubble pops by then in that case MLS, along with all other leagues that are negotiating are in trouble. MLS less so because A. of the relativity small downside compared to say the NBA or NFL who literally have $20 plus billion on the line and B. the NFL and to a lesser extent NBA have much smaller distance to their ceiling than MLS.

mplsjaromir
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Re: Soccer Stadium and Snelling-Midway Development

Postby mplsjaromir » April 8th, 2017, 10:50 am

I will concede that the NBA signed a bonkers TV deal. Given the fact that basketball is the most popular sport in China, the demographics of the domestic market are favorable, and the NBA has aggressively courted those markets they might be okay. The NFL, despite a dip last year is still the most watched sport in the US. The salaries in the NFL and NBA are by far the greatest expense, and those salaries are a negotiated share of generous TV revenue. So if the TV deals lose value the players would have to concede on salaries. MLS and the NHL for that matter are more reliant on gate receipts. If the local fans do not fill the stands the arithmetic makes it difficult to remain a going concern (see the relocation and shuttering of NHL and MLS teams).

Maybe MLS can grow its fan base to a point where networks think they can sell ads at significantly greater rate so that owners would have a broader guaranteed revenue stream. I think that with the proliferation of outlets that can cater to individual fan tastes may work against soccer in the US. Soccer fans can opt to spend their time focusing on elite foreign leagues. MLS may be able to provide a fantastic fan experience that keeps people coming despite the fact that matches do not feature the world's best. Who knows, MLS might one day be able to compete for top players in their prime. For now MLS cannot offer enough to the world's best players.


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