RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
SurlyLHT
US Bank Plaza
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » November 17th, 2017, 4:30 pm

I may be incorrect, but I don't remember this specific language on their site before,

"Working with the City of Minneapolis and our project partners, we are planning a 30-40 story tower with a 5-star hotel, a public plaza, and retail on the street level. The development will be connected by skyway to the César Pelli-designed Minneapolis Central Library."

https://www.uproperties.com/properties/gateway/

go4guy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby go4guy » November 17th, 2017, 5:07 pm

grant1simons2 wrote:
November 14th, 2017, 1:03 pm
Ah yes. If funding for a 30 story office building won't work here, a 90 story one totally will. Blame the banks friends.
Is funding really the problem, or is it the developer? Other developers seem to have no problem financing 30 story apartment towers. Alatus seems to be fine with financing for a 40 story condo tower. Wouldn't it be easier to get financing for a project where most of the tower is already leased up with a high end hotel? That sure seems like a lot safer bet than a tower where they have to sell the entire building to individuals for condos.

SkyScraperKid

Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SkyScraperKid » November 18th, 2017, 2:53 pm

it was recently reported financing for hotels downtown is fastly becoming challenging at best. It's very risky right now with all the recent added hotel rooms. Notice how all the other hotel proposals as of recent fell apart. Either they are going to have to nix the hotel rooms and switch to a different mixed usage design or find a lender willing to go in for the increased risk to finance the project. I think it has a 50/50 shot at being able to secure funding as proposed. Likely they will try to switch the design again. Crazy how the city is allowing this mess to continue.

go4guy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby go4guy » November 19th, 2017, 7:30 pm

So if financing for hotels is riskier, why not offset that risk with a more known commodity like condos or apartments?

dajazz
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby dajazz » November 20th, 2017, 12:08 pm

SkyScraperKid wrote:
November 18th, 2017, 2:53 pm
it was recently reported financing for hotels downtown is fastly becoming challenging at best. It's very risky right now with all the recent added hotel rooms. Notice how all the other hotel proposals as of recent fell apart. Either they are going to have to nix the hotel rooms and switch to a different mixed usage design or find a lender willing to go in for the increased risk to finance the project. I think it has a 50/50 shot at being able to secure funding as proposed. Likely they will try to switch the design again. Crazy how the city is allowing this mess to continue.
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the Four Seasons will cater to a different clientele than most of the other hotels downtown. The Radissons, Marriotts, Hyatts, etc.... aren't really direct competition so adding room capacity won't have the same impact on a project like this as it would on another standard issue hotel.

amiller92
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby amiller92 » November 20th, 2017, 1:20 pm

It's kind of weird that we've never really had one of the big "luxury" brands in Minneapolis. I'd imagine the primary competitor for a Four Seasons would be the Grand and various other boutiques, but even then it's a different creature.

TroyGBiv
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby TroyGBiv » November 20th, 2017, 3:15 pm

Chambers was also pretty high end when it opened... but it isn't a big name... I thought I had read that the luxury hotel brands often negotiate lower rents when there is a condo development attached... the hotel name adds a cache and increases the price a developer can get per unit... I think I read this about the Denver and Atlanta projects... It would seem that having a substantial number of condos would make this project more viable... and have understood that Minneapolis has a very large demand with little condo inventory.

SkyScraperKid

Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SkyScraperKid » November 20th, 2017, 4:52 pm

dajazz wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 12:08 pm
SkyScraperKid wrote:
November 18th, 2017, 2:53 pm
it was recently reported financing for hotels downtown is fastly becoming challenging at best. It's very risky right now with all the recent added hotel rooms. Notice how all the other hotel proposals as of recent fell apart. Either they are going to have to nix the hotel rooms and switch to a different mixed usage design or find a lender willing to go in for the increased risk to finance the project. I think it has a 50/50 shot at being able to secure funding as proposed. Likely they will try to switch the design again. Crazy how the city is allowing this mess to continue.
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the Four Seasons will cater to a different clientele than most of the other hotels downtown. The Radissons, Marriotts, Hyatts, etc.... aren't really direct competition so adding room capacity won't have the same impact on a project like this as it would on another standard issue hotel.
I do agree about not the same clientele, however financial analysts are always much more cautious and less likely to understand minor details about target market and lack of overlap. Still probably increase the risk, even if there is little overlap there will always be some overlap. Hence my skepticism of them being able to still overcome such hurdles. Still, I do enjoy your optimism.

Silophant
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » January 31st, 2018, 4:13 pm

Welp. What if we admitted that the streetcar isn't going to happen, and put out a new RFP that doesn't require a big chunk of ROW left in the block for a transit project that may or may not ever happen?

Palmetto
Block E
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Palmetto » January 31st, 2018, 4:22 pm

Does that mean good news for Ryan's Block One landing RBC?

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » January 31st, 2018, 4:44 pm

If this ends up being dead they should put out a new RFP or put a temporary park here. I'm really tired of looking at that parking lot. Maybe they could use money from United? Ryan got RBC, or Opus did.

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » January 31st, 2018, 4:49 pm

Look like it could be extended without vote?

"UP has requested that the City provide another short extension of their option rights to January 30, 2018 to allow it time to obtain a commitment from RBC. City staff recommends granting an extension of exclusive rights from December 1, 2017 through January 30, 2018, and authorizing the CPED Director to administratively extend the option period by an additional 30 to 60 days, up until March 31, 2018, if needed."

This is from the document above, which also notes that RBC made it's decision at the end of 2017.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby VacantLuxuries » January 31st, 2018, 5:09 pm

If this ends up being dead they should put out a new RFP or put a temporary park here.
Temporary parks become permanent parks. Just ask anyone who uses HCRRA's "temporary trails".

But yeah, this is overdue for a rebid. We really should have planned this so the RFP would go out when a bunch of rich elites were already coming to town, but...

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » January 31st, 2018, 5:12 pm

VacantLuxuries wrote:
January 31st, 2018, 5:09 pm
If this ends up being dead they should put out a new RFP or put a temporary park here.
Temporary parks become permanent parks. Just ask anyone who uses HCRRA's "temporary trails".

But yeah, this is overdue for a rebid. We really should have planned this so the RFP would go out when a bunch of rich elites were already coming to town, but...

Make the third near Nicollet a park then. It'll help buffer Nicollet from the asphalt and enhance Cancer Survivor's park and the Nicollet Redo.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby VacantLuxuries » January 31st, 2018, 5:13 pm

That's a good idea

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » February 1st, 2018, 1:55 pm

Alatus just released the update to their Convention Center tower. I would love to see what they would come up with for this block.

go4guy
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby go4guy » February 1st, 2018, 5:50 pm

Agreed. Rebid this once 200 has broken ground and Alatus needs a next big project to work on.

nstudenski
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby nstudenski » February 3rd, 2018, 10:18 am

Mention in the strib today of a Four Seasons at 301 4th Ave S. Did I miss something?

http://www.startribune.com/construction ... 472434173/

Silophant
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » February 3rd, 2018, 12:10 pm

I don't think so. We probably would have heard something if the Grain Exchange was being renovated into a hotel.

mickeysala
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hello every one

Postby mickeysala » March 6th, 2018, 6:15 am

This could be interesting if the requirement no longer exists for the bus layover. I would like to see the streetcar incorporated into the building. It would be interesting if the Streetcar could have a station similar to Central Station in Saint Paul, with the building built around it.


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