RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

Downtown - North Loop - Mill District - Elliot Park - Loring Park
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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » March 28th, 2018, 3:46 pm

nstudenski wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 3:19 pm
Nathan wrote:
March 28th, 2018, 9:17 am
if this building was always proposed to be 450 to 500 feet there was never going to suddenly be office with the same amount of apartments on top. This has been the proposal from the beginning. All they did was change the insides.
Isn't it the insides that dictate the height of the tower?
The demand for 20 stories of office space does not cannibalize the demand for 30 stories of apartments.
If there is sufficient demand to support one or the other, there should be sufficient demand for a combined project.

I'm not that savvy to the planning/financing process, but I'm guessing it has something to do with 4 seasons.
Do other 4 seasons projects have combined apartment components?
Once you reach certain heights the cost of construction increases dramatically due to needs of many different things, extra elevator banks, taller elevators, more parking (which is limited on this site because there is a limestone bed 2 stories beneath the surface) different cranes, extended construction period. It's not the same, the banks wouldn't financed it the same. This is why many buildings are around this height, supposedly if you go over you have to go way over to make it worth it.

Also luxury apartment demand is definitely slipping downtown.

Other 4 seasons projects have condos.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » April 9th, 2018, 10:25 am

IcOnIc

xandrex
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby xandrex » April 9th, 2018, 10:26 am

I think it looks fine driving south down Hennepin, but man does it look wide and boring from that Target Field view...

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby rhettcarlson » April 9th, 2018, 10:28 am

New renderings in from UP:

SurlyLHT
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » April 9th, 2018, 10:39 am

They haven't updated their site yet...there is just a press release. It seems to look a lot like RBC plaza ironically? What do people think iconic?

jla1591
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby jla1591 » April 9th, 2018, 10:43 am

Star Tribune story here... Construction starting Spring 2019.

http://m.startribune.com/united-propert ... /479166323

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » April 9th, 2018, 10:55 am

"In an interview last month, Mayor Jacob Frey said, "This block is not just an entrance to downtown but a gateway to the entire western half of the country … A surface parking lot does not do that grand entrance any justice.""

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » April 9th, 2018, 10:57 am

It appears they've ditched the modernism feel at the base for bad traditionalism, the tower is grasping at art deco postmodernism, (yes much like the current rbc plaza which is a gorgeous building in comparison) but failing to achieve any elegant proportion associated with that. I'm not sure it's bad, but it definitely doesn't seem Great! Or Iconic!

It's the gateway and you meet this corner with what??? The most mundane flat glass and concrete floorplate?

This project has been the ultimate c*** tease.

alexschief
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby alexschief » April 9th, 2018, 11:13 am

The ground floor actually looks pretty good to me, although it's hard to make out much room for retail. But the form of the tower is especially disappointing, and the facade reads pretty flat in these renderings (although the problem on that front may simply be a poor quality rendering). Uninspired work from ESG.

Btw, on the topic of the renderings, are you telling me that nobody from ESG or United Properties was able to walk a few blocks over to Target Field, literally owned by the developer, and get an actual photo instead of using a Google 3D map image? That's really embarrassing.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby mnmike » April 9th, 2018, 11:34 am

Looks kind of like the jumbled RBC building in Raleigh, without the spire.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby mnmike » April 9th, 2018, 11:37 am

Also, it seems to me that this design is backwards...the downtown facing side would seem to make more sense facing the river.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby SurlyLHT » April 9th, 2018, 12:57 pm

With this project the Pohlads had the opportunity to give their hometown something truly iconic, instead we appear to have a product of math and financials instead. If the height is limited because of the parking required for Four Seasons and the water table, why not partner or develop the land across Hennepin and place well done above the parking and wrap it with housing and an retail and food on the ground level with housing to activate the street level?0 Then place floors above the parking structure perhaps? You could connect this with a skyway and maybe give the parking to condo owners and build more condos? Rather then looking at limitations and constraints, it would have been great if they looks at opportunities and had a goal of making this truly a gateway to their hometown.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 9th, 2018, 1:09 pm

I don't hate it

*runs*

I'll wait to see the first floor plan though. If we get one massive 12,000 sq ft retail space with no intent of splitting I will not be too happy.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » April 9th, 2018, 1:15 pm

mnmike wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
Also, it seems to me that this design is backwards...the downtown facing side would seem to make more sense facing the river.
this for sure.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby 5th Ave Guy » April 9th, 2018, 1:35 pm

With the redesign, does this still need to get approval? Or is it pretty much good to go now?

And they should be embarrassed to have that second picture posted on their official twitter account.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Silophant » April 9th, 2018, 1:39 pm

It'll still need to get approved by the CPC (for the first time, I think?). That is apparently scheduled for June.

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Nathan
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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby Nathan » April 9th, 2018, 1:40 pm

Their project site says they'll be seeking Approvals from the city this summer, beginning construction this fall, so they must still need official approval.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby MNdible » April 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm

I also don't hate it.

There are a lot of moving pieces with this project, and I think on the whole they've put them together remarkably well.

Tough to judge from renderings, but this will probably be the best tower since... TPS? LaSalle Plaza?

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby dajazz » April 9th, 2018, 1:55 pm

mnmike wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 11:37 am
Also, it seems to me that this design is backwards...the downtown facing side would seem to make more sense facing the river.
I'm guessing the layout is due to the irregular shaped lot, its ~80 feet longer going north/south versus east/west.

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Re: United Properties / Four Seasons "Gateway" Project (Nicollet Hotel Block)

Postby lorwest » April 9th, 2018, 3:28 pm

StarTribune indicates that ESG didn’t design this iteration. It’s Smallwood, Reynolds, Stewart, Stewart out of Atlanta. I think it’s a downgrade for sure.


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