Art and Architecture Building Development - 3338 University Ave SE - 14 Stories / 155'

Northeast, Near North, Camden, Old St. Anthony, University and surrounding neighborhoods
bapster2006
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Art and Architecture Building Development - 3338 University Ave SE - 14 Stories / 155'

Postby bapster2006 » April 5th, 2018, 4:26 pm


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Nathan
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Re: Prospect Park - General Topics

Postby Nathan » April 5th, 2018, 5:11 pm

!!! Cool looking project, great density, awesome retail possibilities. Simple decent aesthetics.

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Re: Prospect Park - General Topics

Postby Didier » April 5th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Whoa. There have long been three spots there that are ripe for redevelopment (the old one-story asphalt company, the car repair, and old Tierney Brothers) but never thought they'd all go in one project. This would be really long. I wonder if they'd plan to keep the tenants to the existing warehouse building (T-Rex Cookie and the antique shop specifically). Especially the antique place, it's basically a warehouse, but seems to be done by fine.

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Re: Prospect Park - General Topics

Postby GILBball » April 5th, 2018, 7:44 pm

I am all about this project. Apartments, condos, small retail, offices, historic rehab, a building with CURVES(!!!). I like it a lot. I expect they'll get some pushback about it taking away from the Witches Hat, but Prospect Park has been pretty open to development along University, so I hope this can get approval without too many changes.

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Anondson
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Re: Prospect Park - General Topics

Postby Anondson » April 5th, 2018, 8:27 pm

*swoon*

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby seanrichardryan » April 5th, 2018, 9:27 pm

None of the current tenants will remain based on the floor plans.
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karen nelson
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby karen nelson » April 9th, 2018, 12:49 am

Mega sites worry me. Everything goes in at smart time, with same current fade style and if right mix not picked, can be problem for long while.

17 stories there seems a reach.

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Nathan
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby Nathan » April 9th, 2018, 7:29 am

I mean hypothetically, I totally agree about mega blocks, but we can already see the design of this. It doesn't have any of the characteristic fad design characteristics, for example randomly mix matched materials, materials placed in false locations to make a building appear to be multiple buildings.
This project has multiple cohesive buildings, and is broken up nicely by the historic building that exists, has great set backs and even curves to reflect the site. The 17 story portion looks great, simple classic look, no gimmicks, very narrow to the street to lower impact on views. As far as I can see this is exactly in line with the small area plan, great density for near a major university and light rail station, perfect definition of mixed use with condos, apartments, retail etc etc... What do you see about this specific project that gives you mega block vibes? When I think mega block and fad, I think (original) block e, and this project is giving me more Kraus Anderson/ Finnegans/ brewtel.

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby exiled_antipodean » April 9th, 2018, 2:08 pm

I agree that some people will be opposed to a building that tall, but there’s an influential faction in the neighborhood that wanted to see something dramatically different here, a signature development to welcome people to Minneapolis. And really the contrast with St Paul port authority low rise crap you’ve just passed will be quite stark.

In a way these perspectives in the neighborhood will get their strongest test here, since literally this site backs up to R1A zoning, and it’s right by a park (don’t distract from the tower!)

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out with the neighborhood, but I’d guess the momentum is probably with this one.

karen nelson
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby karen nelson » April 9th, 2018, 6:13 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see something like this than then single-story Westgate offices on St. Paul side, if those are the only two choices.

I just feels downtown to me. Uptown doesn't even have much like this.

Cities seem to need downtown type densities at least one core spot as a response to demand but seems a reach that Minneapolis needs this level fo tall bldg and density here. Maybe the demand will be there and a self-reinforcing thing with other nearby increased density.

And I prefer smaller divisions of things, so if things go wrong it not big wrong. Like the taller building being a separate owner, from the other buildings with at least some time between them to adapt it any mis-predictions.

I'm all for more density but a series of things from. 4- 8, 10, even 12 stories seem like more than enough for even medium- sized city beyond the densest financial core...do we need 14 plus floors every 1/2 block to serve the increased density needs of this area at this time?

I've seen newer modern dense parts of town in European cities with compact shopping areas, hotels, multi-family residential etc with very pleasant street fronts and it doesn't have to involve 17 story buildings, often the buildings are mostly 2-3-4-5 with an occasional, say 7 story one but still overall far surpasses density of any part of Mpls, beyond downtown

And with this project's proposed level of density, over again, several times nearby,... then the south side of University will need some sort of street-accessible plaza, open space, and ideally some all-season, indoor community space, if we don't want to turn into the facelss sad stretches of street in much of downtown Mpls.

Tower Hill Park is right there but the part of the park right in University is steeply sloped and well above the street. Now with all this new density, that mostly wasted green space near University could really benefit from a reworking to make this valuable, park real estate better connected to street front and into something more than just a big lawn with wall-like against the sidewalk.

Will the density of this project and the height of the tallest building get the neighborhood anything to address park and community space? Given all the residents, employees, retail etc such a project would bring, seems like providing for public spaces for those folks and existing neighborhood residents should be a pretty low cost on a per capita basis.

Density makes productive use of land and the best cities also use that productive density to fund some provision that make that density work on a human, community level - than so much of our souless American dowtown-type density.

If we want to go this tall, probably should study what Vancouver does to get that right but I'd rather do it the more gentle way of many European cities

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby go4guy » April 9th, 2018, 9:04 pm

^ I disagree. I like the differences in height. A bunch of 6 story buildings all in a row is boring and plain. 17 stories is not that tall in this part. And if the demand is there where a developer can make this work, more power to them. I love the idea of having more residents around here.

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby Silophant » April 9th, 2018, 9:43 pm

This is only a couple stories taller than the Link a couple blocks down. So, no problem. It's not like that one high-rise in Northeast that's 4x taller than anything else for a mile around.

karen nelson
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby karen nelson » April 10th, 2018, 3:27 am

I agree variation in height is good, I think I was advocating for that, just don't get 17 stories at this location a block from two story residential.

Something like 8-10 seem more in line with incremental changes and demand but perhaps views are big part of the desire for tall.

Again, if this is type of density wanted, in eagerness for supply, I suggest don't forget planning that is needed to make a good neighborhood.

Not very often a whole neighborhood turns over like is happening around here, when buildings are getting built is only chance to make it right for next 75 years. What about parks, plazazs, street front? how to make it work for all the new residents so it is a beloved neighborhood not souless.

Just some minor changes can make all the difference and with high density and tall buildings, really important to get it right.

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby jtoemke » April 10th, 2018, 7:27 am

exiled_antipodean wrote:
April 9th, 2018, 2:08 pm
In a way these perspectives in the neighborhood will get their strongest test here, since literally this site backs up to R1A zoning, and it’s right by a park (don’t distract from the tower!)

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out with the neighborhood, but I’d guess the momentum is probably with this one.
Sidenote is that I know that two of the houses immediately behind Four Star Auto Service were U of M student rentals - atleast back in 2015 when people I knew lived there. Might decrease the resistance to immediately adjacent building. The ones I mean are easily identifiable by the utility pole at the end of the driveway that people hit constantly.

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Nathan
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby Nathan » April 10th, 2018, 7:41 am

Karen, I think you have a lot of really great points and really valuable input. We definitely need to make sure to continue to value green space and open space while densifying the green line corridor! I also think keeping the area full of retail and walk friendly street interfaces are important. One reason I like taller denser development along university is because of how much I value the single family feel and character of the neighborhoods within. There is going to be a lot of demand to live in this area with the lrt, grocery store and university, and I want there to be great new housing options that don't push existing residents our or change the character of the inner neighborhood as much either. One of the only ways to do that is increase supply along the corridor itself.

I personally think this particular project is broken up well, has nice non gimmicky architecture, contains plenty of retail, creates open green rooftop spaces, and on the eastern end has a plaza with a landmark tower of sorts. It's creating character and I think will be a good neighbor.

I think this skepticism should be valued, and may very well come in handy on future projects, there's a lot that can go wrong developing a new neighborhood for sure!

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby nate » April 10th, 2018, 8:05 am

The growth along the Green Line corridor is beginning to reach pretty impressive proportions. Hopefully it starts moving deeper into St Paul soon.

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby amiller92 » April 10th, 2018, 9:09 am

karen nelson wrote:
April 10th, 2018, 3:27 am
Something like 8-10 seem more in line with incremental changes and demand but perhaps views are big part of the desire for tall.
See, I don't get this at all. For whom is there a material difference between 10 and 17 stories? Certainly not anyone passing by at the street level.

There could be some difference in shadowing, but that doesn't seem to be your concern. What ill effects are you worried will result from "too tall?"

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby go4guy » April 10th, 2018, 4:36 pm

^ Agreed. In this project, I don't see making the tower portion 10 stories or less doing anything but making the project worse. If that is the only thing changed, that reduction in height lessens the appeal of this project. It then seems like 1 big complex, instead of multiple buildings. Not to mention, reducing the height would probably require expanding over those green spaces created in the project to get the same ROI. I think this is a great project, and the height of the 1 tower is one of my favorite parts, especially coming from the east. I also love the fact it almost looks like 5 different buildings. Great project IMHO.

karen nelson
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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby karen nelson » April 10th, 2018, 4:49 pm

I see I'm in the minority in the tallness thing :) - Its not a huge thing, I've argued for tall buildings a lot around my town St. Paul (Ford site, and see how a few tall residential buildings amongst other wise low, traditional buildings work just fine - see Grand, Payne ave in St. Paul etc) so I think its kind of funny I'm the one on the other side on this one.

I'm just trying to think of a neighborhood I love that is chuck full of 15 stories + buildings and not too many come to mind - Vancouver was one, residences along Central Park in NYC another. But most of the neighborhoods I love, while quite dense and having occasional taller buildings, have mostly lots of tight packed but not so tall commercial and residential NY boroughs, SF, ....shoot Savannah that I was just at this weekend has remarkable, sneaky pleasant residential density with four-story row houses with shared walls, one after another.

Prospect Park does have a naturally more dense, tall area springing up around the Prospect Park station - which has long had that tall office building on University Ave (I worked in for one summer job - great views) already - this project just seems odd place to suddenly go even taller than that area.

I'm sure this project will be fine. I just hope that given they are going for quite a bit taller than immediate surroundings, they can find a way to make street front work for all the residents and I do like the increased density in this area overall (I live just over in St. Paul SAP)

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Re: Art and Architecture Building Redevelopment - 3338 University Ave SE - 17 Stories / 195'

Postby MNdible » April 10th, 2018, 4:58 pm

Doesn't it seem like the taller portion of the building should go on the east end of the site, closest to the LRT stop?


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