Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction (Douglas to Lake St)

Roads - Rails - Sidewalks - Bikeways
mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby mattaudio » May 2nd, 2017, 9:34 am

I wonder if snow removal is the reason why we don't see bus bulb island stops. https://nacto.org/publication/transit-s ... land-stop/

MNdible
is great.
Posts: 5989
Joined: June 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby MNdible » May 2nd, 2017, 10:04 am

I'll repeat my earlier criticism that the Lake to 31st block absolutely needs to have have pull-off bays in each direction for loading/unloading of taxis, Ubers, drop-offs of elderly, picking up those with heavy packages, etc. If you hate it when bike lanes are blocked, you need to provide a reasonable alternative, especially in a block that will have this much loading/unloading traffic. There's plenty of width in that 17' wide sidewalk zone to create a couple of short loading bays and still have a very pleasant streetscape.

RailBaronYarr
Capella Tower
Posts: 2625
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 4:31 pm

Re: Hennepin Avenue (Franklin to 36th)

Postby RailBaronYarr » May 2nd, 2017, 11:50 am

I actually agree with MNdible there, which is also why I like the idea of a protected bikeway at sidewalk level with parking pull-outs in the boulevard space on the southern blocks. At the PAC meeting where early concepts were presented, we had a (totally random) guest with disabilities who raised the issue of whether Metro Mobility could pull out anywhere.

As to snow and bus bulbs, the city is testing out a fully raised bus bulb with bikeway behind it on Oak St near the U. They are specifically looking at how it functions for cyclists, how they'll manage snow, and how crowds use it.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin Avenue Transit (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby twincitizen » April 12th, 2018, 8:28 am

So who went to the open house last night, what did you see, etc? Where are the aBRT stops? How many lanes, any transit priority?

Here's the City's project page: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cip/fut ... nepinSouth
Flyer for last night's meeting: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/gro ... 209903.pdf
2023 construction

Tcmetro
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1768
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 8:02 pm
Location: Chicago (ex-Minneapolitan)

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby Tcmetro » April 13th, 2018, 4:52 pm

The layout shows three "E Line" stops along Hennepin, at Franklin, 25th, and Uptown TC. The rapid bus study from 2011 recommended 24th and 26th, although I suppose there is plenty of time to change the locations.

Hopefully the E Line can start when the construction wraps up in 2023!

mattaudio
Stone Arch Bridge
Posts: 7752
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 2:04 pm
Location: NORI: NOrth of RIchfield

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby mattaudio » April 13th, 2018, 6:45 pm

They really need to do a full transitway with a few more stops than that, and use it for all local bus routes on Hennepin. Stops at Franklin, 22nd, 25th, 27th, and Uptown TC.

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4371
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 13th, 2018, 11:55 pm

... and a big old university is forgotten about

EOst
Capella Tower
Posts: 2424
Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
Location: Saint Paul

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby EOst » April 14th, 2018, 12:24 pm

^Pretty mystifying to me that the E Line plans don't involve an extension along the 6U route to Stadium Village.

twincitizen
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: May 31st, 2012, 7:27 pm
Location: Standish-Ericsson

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby twincitizen » April 14th, 2018, 4:28 pm

Let’s try to keep this topic limited to the portion of Hennepin being reconstructed (and the E Line stations that will be built as part of the project).

Was there something at the meeting confirming that the E Line plan was identical to the 2012 ATCS study? Or are y’all just assuming so? The E Line planning effort doesn’t really begin until 2019-2020 so I’d urge caution on assuming anything.

On one hand, Franklin-25th-Uptown is pretty aggressively far apart for what will be the “main” frequent service in this corridor. That’s probably close to how subway/LRT stations would be spaced in this environment.

The downside is that wide station spacing is too far to eliminate local stops entirely. While aBRT isn’t going to have stops exactly every 1/4-mile, an alternate of Franklin - 24th - 26th(or midblock 26th/27th) - Uptown might be a reasonable distance that would still allow elimination of remaining local stops in this stretch

EOst
Capella Tower
Posts: 2424
Joined: March 19th, 2014, 8:05 pm
Location: Saint Paul

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby EOst » April 14th, 2018, 5:33 pm

It doesn't mean a ton, but this map from their rapid bus page (map updated a month ago, according to the filename) still has the E Line terminating downtown:

Image

mamundsen
Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 1195
Joined: November 15th, 2012, 10:01 am

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby mamundsen » April 14th, 2018, 9:36 pm

This map would look a lot more complete with the Riverview, Rush, Gold Line and something along 36 or RT 3 (enhanced).

thatchio
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 194
Joined: August 2nd, 2012, 6:49 am

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby thatchio » April 15th, 2018, 10:05 am

If there were ever a subway, there would likely be only one station in between Loring Park and Uptown Transit Center. Stations are expensive. That said, aBRT is not as capital intensive. Things to consider: how should surface transit operate in this section, especially if there are both local and aBRT routes? aBRT will need to occasionally pass local buses.

I would hope that Hennepin improvements would include at least:
- buses the ability to get in front of the general purpose traffic, such as bus only signals with leading interval timing.
- bus only lanes between Franklin and 25th, at least.
- removal of the bus stops at 28th and 22nd
- no beg buttons
- improved crosswalks that make it much more clear to drivers that they should stop further back and that they shouldn't queue in the intersection
- additional left-turn restrictions
- managed public parking on the side streets for first block between Hennepin and adjacent streets to off-set lost parking along Hennepin

grant1simons2
IDS Center
Posts: 4371
Joined: February 8th, 2014, 11:33 pm
Location: Marcy-Holmes

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby grant1simons2 » April 15th, 2018, 11:14 am

"beg buttons" are required by ADA. Many are hooked up incorrectly and require a push to cross. We just need to be sure they get connected.

Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4646
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby Anondson » April 15th, 2018, 1:07 pm

You know how car washes have sensors that alert drivers to back up when you pull in too far? Heavily used crosswalks should get this to buzz at drivers who stop on crosswalk paint.

Does the ADA require beg buttons even if the walk light is set to always happen like the vehicle traffic lights always cycle even when no cars are present?

intercomnut
Rice Park
Posts: 404
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 1:04 pm

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby intercomnut » April 15th, 2018, 1:14 pm

You know how car washes have sensors that alert drivers to back up when you pull in too far? Heavily used crosswalks should get this to buzz at drivers who stop on crosswalk paint.

Does the ADA require beg buttons even if the walk light is set to always happen like the vehicle traffic lights always cycle even when no cars are present?
Yes, because the buttons contain audible and tactile (the button vibrates) cues to tell people who cannot see and/or hear when to cross.

Silophant
Moderator
Posts: 4471
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Location: Whimsical NE

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby Silophant » April 15th, 2018, 1:15 pm

I believe so. As I understand it, the beg buttons have to be at the far side of the crosswalk from their parallel street, and that's where the speakers for the audio cues have to be located. At least, that's the explanation I got for why the new Nicollet crosswalks have beg buttons (that can't actually be pressed, because the walk signs always come on) on separate poles from the actual stoplights, even though the stoplight poles have covered cutouts that are very clearly intended to be where the beg buttons are mounted.
Joey Senkyr
[email protected]

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: RE: Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby David Greene » April 15th, 2018, 2:33 pm


If there were ever a subway, there would likely be only one station in between Loring Park and Uptown Transit Center. Stations are expensive. That said, aBRT is not as capital intensive. Things to consider: how should surface transit operate in this section, especially if there are both local and aBRT routes? aBRT will need to occasionally pass local buses.

I would hope that Hennepin improvements would include at least:
- removal of the bus stops at 28th and 22nd
Agree with everything you said except this. There's a senior mid-rise at that intersection. I'd prefer a stop there rather than at 27th. Yes, it's close to the transit center but the disproportionate number of transit-dependent people there justifies it.

Bus-only lanes should go all the way to Lake. Opening then to carpools would also be fine. They would need to be enforced.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


thatchio
Nicollet Mall
Posts: 194
Joined: August 2nd, 2012, 6:49 am

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby thatchio » April 15th, 2018, 9:19 pm

Point taken about the audio-alerting functions of the beg button. I was intending more that one shouldn't have to press the button to get a walk.

As for 28th bus stop, it'd be useful to get some data on how many mobility restricted individuals use it. I found that stop extremely frustrating as it rarely seemed to have seniors or others with clear mobility needs. Minneapolis has far too many bus stops in general. Makes the 6 extremely frustrating to use if you're going south of Uptown. If I were to be more bold, I'd say get rid of stops at 22nd, 25th (except if that's where the E line stop is), 28th, and Lake Street. If 25th is for the E, then get rid of 22nd, 24th, and 26th, and keeping 27th.

Anondson
IDS Center
Posts: 4646
Joined: July 21st, 2013, 8:57 pm
Location: Where West Minneapolis Once Was

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby Anondson » April 16th, 2018, 10:31 am

Not to continue the tangent, but how do countries that don’t have the ADA handle handicap accessibility at pedestrian crossings for the blind?

David Greene
IDS Center
Posts: 4617
Joined: December 4th, 2012, 11:41 am

Re: Hennepin Avenue Reconstruction / E Line (Uptown to Downtown)

Postby David Greene » April 16th, 2018, 6:18 pm

I guess it depends on the definition of "mobility limited." Many such people don't have obvious physical disabilities. I'd like to see data too. More may use the stop off-peak, which I don't have a lot of anecdata about.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 60 guests