Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Parks, Minneapolis Public Schools, Density, Zoning, etc.
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Bob Stinson's Ghost
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » July 17th, 2018, 11:17 am

For many of the aging owners of those single family homes it's the only store of wealth they have, and they are going to need to sell those homes to pay for their end of life expenses (or their heirs will). Even without any Freyplexes supply and demand will be much more closely matched over the next decade.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 17th, 2018, 11:18 am

I've been kind of interested by how many of the takes about the plan bring up the Hiawatha Golf Course as a case study in why planners are bad. I'm not sure how a neighborhood org would have solved the problem of it being illegal to continue operating.

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby amiller92 » July 17th, 2018, 1:41 pm

Bob Stinson's Ghost wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 11:17 am
For many of the aging owners of those single family homes it's the only store of wealth they have, and they are going to need to sell those homes to pay for their end of life expenses (or their heirs will). Even without any Freyplexes supply and demand will be much more closely matched over the next decade.
Hm. The exit of baby boomers from homeownership will free up some supply, but I wonder how that compares to the broader trends of return to the city and pent up millennial demand. It would be interesting to see a demographic breakdown of homeownership, but just on population, only 8.8% of the city's population is over 65. At current housing prices it's going to be awhile before the 20% that's under 17 will be moving into the ownership range, but it doesn't seem like a huge chunk of supply to absorb even assuming that the over 65 set owns homes at much higher rates than the 71.2% of the city that are adults under 65.

Meanwhile, another snippet of data you can squint at and sort of make a guess from is that 88.5% of households moved into their current unit 1990 or later, and thus don't yet fit the "paid of a 30 year mortgage" profile. (77% 2000 or later).

Data from MN Compass: http://www.mncompass.org/profiles/custom

Off topic, that data also says 30% don't drive to work, which is higher than I would have guessed.

tmart
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby tmart » July 22nd, 2018, 7:01 am

http://www.startribune.com/feeling-the- ... 488810061/

Sure not feeling optimistic about this thing after seeing some of the council react to the public feedback. Sounds like the NIMBYs and wealthy homeowners have complained the loudest and will be getting their way when the final plan comes out.

Last day to comment on the draft is today.

EOst
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby EOst » July 22nd, 2018, 1:13 pm

Me in March:
EOst wrote:
March 8th, 2018, 2:24 pm
If this came down to a Council vote--if it gets that far--what would a majority for this look like? If you assume the opposition of those quoted in the article [Johnson, Gordon], plus the members who are pretty obviously poor fits for this proposal (Goodman, Palmisano, Reich) you would basically have to run the gauntlet with 7 of the remaining 8. Would Warsame vote for something like this? Would Cano? That math looks pretty challenging to me.
With Schroeder out and with Johnson looking like a solid "no," this math is getting harder and harder. Can Gordon be flipped? If not, you need the support of Ellison, Fletcher, Cunningham, Warsame, Jenkins, Cano, and Bender. Only a couple of those are solid "yes." That sounds like a pretty unlikely bloc to me.

twincitizen
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby twincitizen » July 22nd, 2018, 9:09 pm

It's not going to be brought up for a vote in its current form, so vote counting may be premature. I'd expect to see some changes in the next draft of the plan (following the public comment period) and we'll wind up with something that will pass with broad support. Hopefully the final draft is still bold enough to garner a no from Goodman and/or Palmisano, but still passes with 10-3 approval or better.

I'd guess "Fourplexes everywhere" is out. I sincerely hope that the final plan still allows for at least 2 units (plus ADU) on every lot in the city. The ideal "compromise victory" is to make that concession, while retaining the vast upzoning along transit corridors (Built Form Map: Corridor 4 or 6 on the transit street and Interior 3 on the adjacent streets). If Council President Bender can pass that compromise with a 10-3 vote or better, take it. A City's Comprehensive Plan is not the kind of policy document that should be approved on a slim 7-6 or 8-5 margin. This plan contains wide-ranging policy (meant to hold up for a decade!) and therefore should have broad support of the city's elected officials. I'm still fine with Goodman and Palmisano voting against it...whatever.

Chef
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Chef » July 22nd, 2018, 11:51 pm

It is possible that fourplexes everywhere was never the ultimate goal, but rather an aggressive proposal that would allow their real goal to be presented as the compromise. Probably upzoning along transit corridors and arterials and a weakening of parking requirements.

tmart
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby tmart » July 23rd, 2018, 6:09 am

I think it was a sincere goal because the built form map is still quite restrictive in many of the areas that are getting their undies in a bunch about fourplexes. I imagine the plan was to say, yes, we're getting rid of the restrictions on multiple units, but the 2.5 story limit and other such restrictions will keep the buildings looking pretty much the same as the giant SFHs going in whenever something is redeveloped today. That would also explain why they got seriously pissed about the fourplex thing leaking ahead of the rest of the plan, since it was able to be spun as bulldozing houses and putting towers in Southwest when that's just laughably inaccurate.

Multimodal
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Multimodal » July 23rd, 2018, 6:43 am

Any good negotiator starts out with a proposal more ambitious than what they really want.

Take out “4-plexes everywhere” and it’s still a great improvement over the existing plan.

If it becomes “4-plexes everywhere but [here] and [here]” or even “Duplexes everywhere” it’s still a great plan. “Duplexes everywhere” is a doubling the zoning for most of the city. And the corridors add lots of density throughout the city—in the right places.

If the feedback is almost exclusively about 4-plexes, then they have distracted people from what they really want (selective density) and will get it all (or most of it).

minntransplant
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby minntransplant » July 23rd, 2018, 7:03 am

So basically the plan is going to be scaled back a ton and as a result we are going to see almost all new development where it's already been occurring: uptown, downtown, north loop, NE, and along the blue and green lines.

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Bob Stinson's Ghost
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Bob Stinson's Ghost » July 23rd, 2018, 7:15 am

There must not be as much profit potential in fourplexes as my rough calculations suggest.

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Anondson
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Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby Anondson » July 23rd, 2018, 7:47 am

It’s less the “profit” and more the “demagoguery”.

xandrex
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby xandrex » July 23rd, 2018, 8:28 am

minntransplant wrote:
July 23rd, 2018, 7:03 am
So basically the plan is going to be scaled back a ton and as a result we are going to see almost all new development where it's already been occurring: uptown, downtown, north loop, NE, and along the blue and green lines.
I think that regardless of what passes, this is what would happen anyway. You're pretty much describing the entire core of Minneapolis, and development is happening there not just because that's where it's allowed, but also because that's where a lot of people want to live!

amiller92
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby amiller92 » July 23rd, 2018, 10:20 am

twincitizen wrote:
July 22nd, 2018, 9:09 pm
I'd guess "Fourplexes everywhere" is out. I sincerely hope that the final plan still allows for at least 2 units (plus ADU) on every lot in the city. The ideal "compromise victory" is to make that concession, while retaining the vast upzoning along transit corridors (Built Form Map: Corridor 4 or 6 on the transit street and Interior 3 on the adjacent streets).

Probably will need to turn some Corridor 6s to Corridor 4s too (thinking Chicago south of 38th or so), as that was one of the concerns Schroeder raised.

twincitizen
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby twincitizen » July 23rd, 2018, 12:41 pm

They've posted all of the comments made between 3/22 and 6/22 online, including the interactive map comments. Comments from 6/23-7/22 (final month of comment period) will be uploaded in the coming weeks.

https://minneapolis2040.com/received-public-comments/

This isn't terribly surprising due to age & tech literacy splits, but it appears a majority (or at least plurality) of the comments made through the interactive map are supportive of increased density, and many comments suggest that the plan should go even further in certain areas: 46th & 50th station areas, inner NE, and Nicollet Island (sidebar: how come we never talk about that?! I guess there's the whole park-owned issue...)

Anyways, I only had time to check out the map comments. But there's whole PDFs of emailed comments, comments from open houses, etc. Dig in. I only wish now that I'd seen these yesterday before leaving my own comments before the deadline.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 23rd, 2018, 1:02 pm

Sixplexes are mentioned at least as often as references to a vast developer conspiracy, so that's good news.

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 23rd, 2018, 1:43 pm

Wasting time browsing the map ... "Changing zoning across from single family homes worth $500,000-$2million dollars is NOT OK without immediate homeowners approval."

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 23rd, 2018, 1:44 pm

Also from a self-identified SW Minneapolis resident: "Why not increase density in existing moderate income areas?"

exiled_antipodean
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby exiled_antipodean » July 23rd, 2018, 1:45 pm

And from a resident of the Wedge: "The wedge is absorbing too much of the increased density. Why isn't So. Mpls absorbing more?"

grant1simons2
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Re: Minneapolis 2040 Comprehensive Plan

Postby grant1simons2 » July 23rd, 2018, 2:24 pm

Can't wait for my comment frenzy last night that I did while at my parents house shows up. Bubble in Eden Prairie could possibly cause some really good conspiracies.


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