RBC Gateway (Four Seasons) - 37 stories - 519'

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Nathan
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Nathan » July 27th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Lisa I. RoadBot wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 12:31 pm
THE DEAL was....
We (the Representatives of The Citizens of Minneapolis), give you, the winners of the"proposal contest" development rights to this parcel-
YOU (United Properties) give us an ICONIC BUILDING....
That has not been fulfilled.
This is the corner of Washington and Hennepin Avenues, for chrissakes- it's what it could be, not what it is, or what it has been recently...
I guess "any building is better than no building", though, huh? you guys?
Put some landscaping on it, and save it for a more responsible City Council and Developer of the future...
The developer/general plan decision was made by a city council past... interesting jab though.

martykoessel
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby martykoessel » July 27th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Maybe time to chill a little?
By the standards of urban tragedies (struggling economy, decaying infrastructure, declining population, rampant crime), a decision not to build a Four Seasons hotel and a few super-luxury condos does not rank high.
In fact, we're not even at a City Center level of tragedy. While this building won't enter into the iconic ranks and grace the covers of architectural magazines, it's pretty darn okay by the standards of modern office buildings, and it appears rather pleasant at street level.
There's a limit to how personally aggrieved we can feel about how companies choose to invest their bucks, especially when that decision gets rid of a horrible surface parking lot and keeps a major employer right in the center of the city.

Silophant
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » July 27th, 2018, 12:54 pm

The deal was, in fact, that the City gives UP development rights on this parcel, and UP builds a building of at least 30 stories. It's fine to wish or hope for more (I do too), but UP is holding up their end of the bargain.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby bubzki2 » July 27th, 2018, 12:59 pm

I'd say they probably met the letter of the law when it comes to the request, but only barely. That said, I'm genuinely surprised that the market doesn't encourage more height at this prominent, central location.

MNdible
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby MNdible » July 27th, 2018, 1:14 pm

A rather subtle point, maybe, but it occurs to me that this will be the only tower that's aligned to the Hennepin grid, as opposed to the Nicollet grid of all of the other downtown towers. Could make for an interesting perspective.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby seanrichardryan » July 27th, 2018, 8:39 pm

Can we divide the parcel into three? When the streetcar dies that will be a great development opportunity. The LAST thing this area needs is another plaza.
Q. What, what? A. In da butt.

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » July 28th, 2018, 7:36 am

One of the other developers in the sweepstakes to earn the rights to the parcel might have been able
to stay truer to their initial proposal. We, the residents are not responsible for what the proposal is now,
the City of Minneapolis is not responsible, either.
United Properties is responsible alone for not being able to secure a Hotel or a condo/apartment element to this project.
I'm angry because we will never see what any of the more competent developers could have done with this parcel-
"Iconic Building" was part of the wording in the request for proposals from the city... I guess this "pleasant" office building on a entertainment street could be "Iconic".....




In Topeka!

Chef
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Chef » July 28th, 2018, 8:33 am

I think part of the problem is that Duval gave us a really pretty picture, and that set the bar for what we expected here. But that was never going to get built. It was a publicity stunt. Duval isn't a developer of projects like this. The real demand for space at this location is obviously far less than internet posters think it should be.

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » July 28th, 2018, 8:50 am

The city's request for proposals (RFP) outlines its goals for that critical junction:

"... an iconic, high-quality, designed new construction structure(s) of at least 20 active floors
a mix of commercial, retail, residential, office and hotel uses
active street-level retail
integrated green space for the public...."

"...The Nicollet Hotel block has arguably the most potential of any parcel in the city, and consequently we will not settle for anything short of iconic,” said Ward 3 Council Member Jacob Frey, in a news release. “In one fell swoop we can add people to downtown, create green space, and trigger connection to the river. We expect that designers and developers will bring their best...”

I sort of knew the Duval proposal was a bit of a pipe dream, but there were other proposals also, each of them more interesting
than United's current one-
According to the RFP, United Properties is failing on much of the criteria...

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Silophant » July 28th, 2018, 10:14 am

Are they?

It has integrated public green space.
It has active street-level retail.
It has a mix of commercial, retail and office uses. No residential or hotel anymore, but none of the original proposals had all of office, hotel, and residential (the proposal UP won with was just a hotel and apartments, the office was a later addition).
And it's a greater than 20 story newly constructed structure with high material quality. The only criterion they can be said to be not meeting is the "iconic" one, which is totally subjective and impossible to enforce. I guess the city could have put a bunch more specific massing or lighting requirements in the RFP, but then they would have run the risk of not getting respondents at all.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby mnmike » July 28th, 2018, 10:25 am

I think if the lower portion had some kind of anchor I’d be really happy with this. Would be a good spot for another try at a downtown movie theater, or some other active “anchor” use. Like the pinstripes idea or a new home for a comedy club, a downtown Best Buy...something.

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Tcmetro » July 28th, 2018, 12:03 pm

I'm somewhat surprised that this is going all-office. I would imagine that "entertainment" uses would prevail at this site because it is closer to the more populated downtown neighborhoods and that office would be drawn to the southern parts of downtown, where most of the suburban express bus routes have their first/last stops.

Anywho, this parcel has sat empty for decades. Even though it is situated at a major intersection, that doesn't mean that it needs to be a major landmark. If it was truly that important of a site, it would have been developed long ago.

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » July 28th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Fine. Build the P.O.S.....
I'm not gonna kiss their hand because they are going to put an office building Perkins style cafeteria
in to fulfill their promise of commercial space....
But they have been cheapening their proposal since day one, I would rather an empty lot that retains it's potential
until someone with an imagination comes up with something better-
I guess I have to accept their lame shack because no one else has been able to build a condo, apartment , or hotel
in Downtown Minneapolis, lately, after all....

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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby BigIdeasGuy » July 28th, 2018, 6:14 pm

I don't think anyone here is even remotely excited about United Properties scaling down their plan, I'm certainly not, if you don't believe me go back and look at my posting history. But at the end of the day United Properties has back the city into a corner on this one. Assuming UP refuses to the proposal, it realistically leaves the city with 2 options.

1. Approve the mediocre proposal and have a shovel sometime in the foreseeable future
2. Deny the mediocre proposal then the best case be back at square one issuing a new RFP then who knows what happens or when a shovel is the ground and the worst case be stuck in expensive nasty law suit that they could very easily lose and then mediocre proposal gets built. Not to mention what does RBC do?

Neither is an ideal option, not by a long shot but that's those are the cities option. If you think option 1 is the better choice, that is a defensible position in many ways, but I don't blame anyone here that thinks option 2 is the way to go, as disappointing as it is.

I think the bigger questions that we should think about are

1. Why are A parcel only getting C building while C parcels are getting A buildings (multiple people have asked that in multiple ways but I haven't anyone have a theory about why that is the case, I'm genuinely curious is has a idea this one)
2. Why did the Four Seasons back out? Was it something on the Four Season end, was it something that the city has control over, was it something the city doesn't have control, was it something else? I think we all would agree that being a city that businesses like Four Seasons want to be in should be aspire to but why isn't that the case now, what can the city do to make that the case?

Those are the questions I hope the mayor and city leaders are asking UP, Four Seasons and developers in general.

ko123
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby ko123 » July 30th, 2018, 6:59 am

Roof level reduced 480' to 432'. Despite that I think it looks improved.

Bakken2016
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Bakken2016 » July 30th, 2018, 10:25 am

mnmike wrote:
July 28th, 2018, 10:25 am
I think if the lower portion had some kind of anchor I’d be really happy with this. Would be a good spot for another try at a downtown movie theater, or some other active “anchor” use. Like the pinstripes idea or a new home for a comedy club, a downtown Best Buy...something.
A downtown Apple Store would be perfect!

StoJa9

Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby StoJa9 » July 30th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Lisa I. RoadBot wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 10:45 am
What a crappy piece of crap- crap.
Nope! they are outta here.
They failed. Their proposal is unacceptable, its shot.
There was a process to win the rights to develop here, United FAILED.
Other proposals were cast aside, they were told they weren't good enough...
I wanted Duval to win, and perhaps that was unrealistic, but I want the process to win the development rights to this
property to begin anew-
Waiting 4, 5, 6 years for a new building is nothing compared to giving this property away
to these failures at United to build a 494 loop style suburban McOffice....
I'm SO angry I can't even give a intelligent rebuttal.
SO which Skyscraper City member are you? TallBob or Lancester?

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Lisa I. RoadBot
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Lisa I. RoadBot » July 31st, 2018, 6:14 am

StoJa9 wrote:
July 30th, 2018, 7:47 pm
Lisa I. RoadBot wrote:
July 27th, 2018, 10:45 am
What a crappy piece of crap- crap.
Nope! they are outta here.
They failed. Their proposal is unacceptable, its shot.
There was a process to win the rights to develop here, United FAILED.
Other proposals were cast aside, they were told they weren't good enough...
I wanted Duval to win, and perhaps that was unrealistic, but I want the process to win the development rights to this
property to begin anew-
Waiting 4, 5, 6 years for a new building is nothing compared to giving this property away
to these failures at United to build a 494 loop style suburban McOffice....
I'm SO angry I can't even give a intelligent rebuttal.
SO which Skyscraper City member are you? TallBob or Lancester?
I am neither of these people...
Who I am is a person, that architecturally, has Lower Manhattan dreams,
but in reality, am actually here, In The Sticks.
I have softened some, this is not a bad looking building, after actually looking at the drawings of the first floors/skyway level
it does show potential to be friendly to the public- but at this juncture, I don't trust United Properties to stay true to their plans.

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VacantLuxuries
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby VacantLuxuries » July 31st, 2018, 8:23 am

I'm not happy with this building either, but we've got a *lot* of vacant lots to burn through before we can even start to daydream about Lower Manhattan.

Multimodal
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Re: Gateway Tower (RBC Plaza Jr.) - 30 stories - 458'

Postby Multimodal » July 31st, 2018, 8:31 am

Creating great places, spaces, and cities is not about filling space, no matter how much we have.

As Jan Gehl says in Life Between Buildings:
Every foot counts.


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